Gas prices

[adamb193]

Yay for 30 MPG!

 

[V8Li]

anyone remember the times of $0.59 a gallon? :lol:

Not here in Europe, no...

if the cost is so much, then why not develop more efficient cars

Wow, let's think about it for a second. A long time ago ('90s) my family owned a '82 petrol car. It was doing 100Km with 6 ltrs back then. It was not good for burnouts and it didn't had a 5.7 (to infinite) ltr Chevy engine but it was doing 160 Km/h easy. I don't want to point any fingers here but in some places efficiency was ruling, Citroen was into aerodynamics ages ago for example. Transmissions can be improved too, have 8 drive gears instead of 4 (oh, wait, you will waste more time changing gears and it will take longer to get to 100Km/h); the weight of the car too, but I mean, if you crush a 0.8 tone car into a 2t Touareg which car would you rather drive? Everything is related and there is no easy way around until we really see it coming.

We have wasted fuel on 2t cars that were not able to take a corner right. There were efficient cars but were not wanted back then and not even today. People would just buy a Mustang or a S Class instead of a small japaneese or european car.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Repeating the posts above, you should add more options to your poll..
If I calculate liters to gallons and then Euro's to Dollars, I get somewhere between $9 and $10 dollar/gallon too, for the fuel price in the Netherlands.

Last time I tanked, it was about 80 Euro (=$126) for just one tank!


Still everyone here continues to drive with 87 mph ... Wow you have very low fuel prices over there the US!! (compared to here)

regards,
mcduck

 

[dutchpirate]

The gas prices in Nederland are the only thing I'm NOT looking forward to next month when I am there. My brother is coming also a week later and he is renting a larger car than I am. I think he's nuts not only for gas, but for fitting into traffic/parking.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I think he's nuts not only for gas, but for fitting into traffic/parking.

Ah, between all those SUV's.. Though if it's a Lexus LS460 (or the toyota Prius Tech edition), he could be lucky with the auto-parking function...

BTW, are you dutch from origin and living in Canada, or just there temporarily?

regards,
mcduck

 

[Quick_Nick]

I think there are a few things to remember when thinking about the difference of prices. The first thing I can think of is that some European countries give more free benefits to citizens than in the US, so some things are more expensive. Second thing is that the US dollar seems to be pretty worthless compared to the british pound. If you try moving from the US to the UK you'll probably notice that things seem much more expensive. I think this might be partially due to the first point. While £1 may be technically worth about $2, it probably won't get you as much there as $2 would here.

 

[dutchpirate]

Ah, between all those SUV's.. Though if it's a Lexus LS460 (or the toyota Prius Tech edition), he could be lucky with the auto-parking function...

BTW, are you dutch from origin and living in Canada, or just there temporarily?

regards,
mcduck

Saab 9.0, I'm taking an Opel Astra instead! Born in Rotterdam, been living in Canada most of my life. I've been back 17 times, but the last time was 14 years ago! This will be the first trip to Europe for my girlfriend, so I'm very excited to show her around!

Oranje Boven Op!

 

[GregBurch]

If people will be ready to embrace it, we could have an extremely bright energy and transportation future. Practical all-electric cars with great performance and range are just around the corner. Extremely inexpensive, plentiful and clean electricity can be had. Here in the US we just need to get a little more of a wake-up call, roll up our sleeves and get to work. We could be energy independent in 20 years and tell the oil-ticks who sit on top of the remaining reserves to go to hell. I have modest hope that this will happen, once the ridiculous political posturing over the issues stops.

The absurd "hearings" in which oil company executives were grilled in Congress this week are an example of the crap politics that stand in the way. These guys run OIL companies -- they sell OIL and petroleum products. It's not their job to "solve" the energy problems we have; it's their job to make a profit for their shareholders selling OIL. Looking to them for answers is like looking to a guy who owns a liquor store for help with your alcoholism.

 

[Ursus]

I think there are a few things to remember when thinking about the difference of prices. The first thing I can think of is that some European countries give more free benefits to citizens than in the US, so some things are more expensive. Second thing is that the US dollar seems to be pretty worthless compared to the british pound. If you try moving from the US to the UK you'll probably notice that things seem much more expensive. I think this might be partially due to the first point. While £1 may be technically worth about $2, it probably won't get you as much there as $2 would here.

Free benefits? I think folks in Europe pay taxes like we do here. Probably more, in order to pay for all those "free" benefits (though it's possible that their governments run much more efficiently than ours).

 

[Bj]

Repeating the posts above, you should add more options to your poll..

sorry, I didn't figure that people are paying more than $5 a gallon... and I can't add more options now.

At any rate, I wouldnt mind driving an electric car, but the car companys have to get there heads out of the clouds, and make the electric car the same value as the other vehicles they sell. $1,000,000 - $500,000 is too much for me. :dry:

 

[tl8]

sorry, I didn't figure that people are paying more than $5 a gallon... and I can't add more options now.

In Aus its about 1.60 a litre in Aud, Its worse in Europe isn't it

 

[Cairan]

The absurd "hearings" in which oil company executives were grilled in Congress this week are an example of the crap politics that stand in the way. These guys run OIL companies -- they sell OIL and petroleum products. It's not their job to "solve" the energy problems we have; it's their job to make a profit for their shareholders selling OIL. Looking to them for answers is like looking to a guy who owns a liquor store for help with your alcoholism.

I definitely agree to that... I really hope people wake up on both sides of our border because I'm getting fed up hearing people say it's all the government's fault (tax) or the Big Oil (price smudging) or the Arabs when the real, absolute problem really is quite simple: oil will end someday and prices will only keep going up as long as demand is rising and offer is not...

Now these nut cases in Congress saying that the solution to the problem is to increase the offer, either domestically or by pleading it to barely or non-democratic governments abroad, are really missing the big mid-to-long term outlook: why siphon more of the stuff in a quicker way now to save 10 cents a gallon for a few years, or invest the taxes of Big Oil to really get us to the electric or hydrogen-based transport economy...

As long as freaks barely looking beyond their re-election campaigns will be in charge, we are doomed to a very steep crash.

 

[movieman]

Practical all-electric cars with great performance and range are just around the corner.

Not around any corner I can see. The Volt looks like a half-decent concept, but at $40,000 you'd have to burn an awful lot of oil to beat the cost of driving a petrol-powered equivalent; particularly given that we have little to no idea of the lifetime costs of the batteries.

Extremely inexpensive, plentiful and clean electricity can be had.

From where?

If 'inexpensive and clean electricity' and 'practical all-electric cars with great performance and range' were that easy, we'd have had them long ago. In reality, fission and coal are the only real short-term options for greatly increasing electricity supply and electric vehicles are either cheap, slow and short-ranged or fast, long-ranged and priced like Ferraris.

 

[movieman]

Falling USD value + increased demand from emerging countries = skyrocketting oil price.

As I understand it, the 'increased demand from emerging countries' in the last year has barely been greater than the reduction in demand in America as the economy tanks. Most of the increased demand for oil has come from hedge funds taking leveraged positions in the futures market with cheap credit. I can't see that this is any less of a bubble than the housing market has been.

How much oil do you think Chinese workers can buy at $120 a barrel when when they're earning a dollar an hour? If Americans are having a hard time paying to run cars, how do you think Chinese workers are going to do so?

More than that, if Americans are having a hard time paying to run cars, how do you think they're going to pay to buy the iPods and other tat that pay the wages of those Chinese workers? A US recession will rapidly lead to a recession in those 'emerging countries'.

Get used to it, it's only going up from now on until we switch over to other energy sources.

In the short term, the price of oil is probably going back to $60-80 a barrel, because that's about where it should be absent the massive speculation. If the US economy really does go into a serious recession, we're going to be looking at an oil glut soon and prices will drop even lower.

In the long term, yes, oil is a finite resource and we should be trying to move away from it as a fuel source. But the current prices are driven largely by speculators, not by rational supply and demand considerations.

 

[thomasantony]

Well .. here for "normal" unleaded petrol, its around Rs. 47.80 per litre. That would be around 1.12 USD. Since one litre is around 0.264 gallon, that would be around $4.24 per gallon, if I got my math right.

~
Thomas

 

[Kunsa]

I think 1.60 AUD per Litre is about 5.75USD per gallon.
As Tl8 said, thats the average price in Australia right now.

 

[GregBurch]

Not around any corner I can see. The Volt looks like a half-decent concept, but at $40,000 you'd have to burn an awful lot of oil to beat the cost of driving a petrol-powered equivalent; particularly given that we have little to no idea of the lifetime costs of the batteries.

From where?

If 'inexpensive and clean electricity' and 'practical all-electric cars with great performance and range' were that easy, we'd have had them long ago. In reality, fission and coal are the only real short-term options for greatly increasing electricity supply and electric vehicles are either cheap, slow and short-ranged or fast, long-ranged and priced like Ferraris.

"Heavier-than-air flight is just around the corner!" "Surely you don't mean those powered kites that those bicycle mechanics at Kittyhawk just flew!" "A computer in every home is just around the corner!" "You mean those stupid little toys named after a fruit?!?!?"

Seriously: I am a complete and total car nut. Well, not "total" since I'm also a space nut. But I know cars. And if you can get a new Ferrari for the price of a new Tesla, then please, tell me where. Again, seriously, I know of two projects under way to build all-electrics with the same kind of range as the Tesla that have very realistic time-frames (i.e. on the market in under three years), and a price of under $40k. And the Tesla Roadster itself is intended as a "leader" to get the kinks out of the technology and the market warmed up. The 4-seat coupe priced at half as much is right behind it in the pipeline and the Chairman of the Board of Tesla is someone who has demonstrated he can deliver on major technology businesses, after all.

As for the "inexpensive and clean electricity" thing, well, let me quote Bill Paxton's character from Alien: "Maybe you haven't been keeping up with current events:"

http://www.energy-daily.com/reports/Thorium_Reactors_Integral_To_Indian_Energy_Independence_999.html

The thorium reactor technology is real and moving into the demonstration phase. If you think it's a fringe idea, go argue with Nathan Myrhvold. I make my living in the energy business. I've worked for over two decades in the process of building power plants and selling electricity. I'm betting on thorium.

GB

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Practical all-electric cars with great performance and range are just around the corner.

Not around any corner I can see.

Does anyone know the Tesla Roadster? It's in full production now.
Range on full batteries: 100 miles (160 km)
Top speed: 125 mph (201 km/h)
Accel: 0-60 (mph?) in <4 sec
Charging time: 3.5 hrs (for the home charging device, I think it takes longer with the mobile one).


It's relatively cheap for a car like that, but we can't order one as they don't ship to Europe (yet?)..

regards,
mcduck

 

[V8Li]

Yes, it's a good car with a cool design too, I've seen some info about it on TV. But isn't it 100K or so?

 

[GregBurch]

Yes, it's a good car with a cool design too, I've seen some info about it on TV. But isn't it 100K or so?

Yes, but bear in mind a few things:

-- it's a first, and intended more than anything else to demonstrate that a from-scratch start-up can make a "real" car (i.e. not a kit, and not something that slips in under the regulatory radar as a motorcycle (viz. Aptera et al.) that is all-electric, and very satisfying to car guys.

-- in the world of performance cars, $100k isn't that unusual. I've got about that in my car, and I know people who have a LOT more in theirs.

-- Musk will sell every Tesla Roadster he can build for the foreseeable future, with a LOOOONG waiting line. As I say, right behind it and well along in development is a sedan that's half the Roadster's price or less, and meant for production in very large numbers.

GB