Kwajalein Atoll

Perhaps the Royal Navy would never have left the Bismark on the surface, after what it did to HMS Hood?

Well, it did not really do something special. The Hood was no match for any WW2 battleship. What made the Hood important, was the terrible fact, that the Hood got destroyed in a real worst case scenario - a massive powder explosion spreading over the whole ship. Only 3 survivors if I remember correctly. Which, regarding the fate of other british ships of WW1 is only slightly less than normal - the British warships have been death traps in WW1.

The sinking of the Bismark was more a sign of British precision gunnery... ;)

(For those who don't know about British gunnery: British gunnery was always optimized for high rates of fire, but never very accurate in the last century)
 
Nice to see the story comes back to the Prinz Eugen...

N.
 
:lol::lol:

All roads lead to Rome.

No, they all lead AWAY from Rome but people keep walking along them in the wrong direction...........

Interesting post. I never knew they nuked a ship like that....
 
Still one of my personal favorites that met a horrible end at Leyte Gulf in 1944...the IJN Fuso. An old battleship with 14 inch guns; it had the tallest of the rebuilt 'pagoda tower' bridges. Sawed in half by US torpedos as it tried to enter the gulf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Fusō
Fuso-2.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Japanese_battleships_Yamashiro,_Fuso_and_Haruna.jpg
 
Wow - such a superstructure is really insane. They seem to think that things are safer when they are further away from the water.
 
that tower is really weird
 
Japanese warships of WWII were, IMO, very ugly. Their superstructures were all too tall and too bulky, and the carriers had no superstructure at all above the flight deck. Even the exhaust stacks were sideways. Despite their looks, they were good designs, though. And if you dig around the internet for the proposed mega-carriers that would've replaced the Nimitz class for the U.S., you'll see a carrier that truly redefines "ugly".

For beautiful lines, the German, Italian, American, and some British ships couldn't be beat. Some of the older British designs were kind of ugly, though, like the Rodney, which had all three main gun turrets forward of the superstructure. Bismarck was very modern and sleek-looking, and maybe I'm just being a homer, but the Iowa class remains beautiful. If you ever saw one sailing alongside modern Aegis-class cruisers and destroyers just a few years ago, it was amazing to see how modern-looking and sleek they were for a design of the 1940s. I heard that the Iowas still have the old mechanical gear bellistic computers installed in them for the main guns, and were using them during the Gulf War of '91.

And with that armor plating and armament, including modern Phalanx guns and cruise missile launchers, they look very powerful. Not to mention they are fast enough to keep up with nuclear carriers.
 
And with that armor plating and armament, including modern Phalanx guns and cruise missile launchers, they look very powerful. Not to mention they are fast enough to keep up with nuclear carriers.

No they're not. US carriers are designed to steam at greater than 30kts while launching aircraft (they need to be able to go that fast to generate sufficient wind over the flightdeck). Now imagine what happens it you're not launching aircraft and the steam used for the catapaults becomes available for propulsion. There are very few ships in the fleet faster than a carrier. She can easily outrun her escorts.
 
Good thread...keeps getting better. I should have known: spaceship freaks also love navy ships!

Yep, for sure my ship's the Musashi. Not as famous as Yamato, which, for some reason that's always bugged me, is usually mistaken for an imaginary ship called "Yamamoto." (Makes me feel like that guy in the movie version of Hunt for Red October, exasperatedly explaining for the 100th time, "Pavarotti is a tenor, Paganini was a composer...")

I should check a chart...it's close enough to "Bondoc point" (original Boondocks, anyone?) so that maybe it could be visited by Dr. Ballard...but then, to the east of the Philippines is some of the deepest waters on the earth.

When I was living in Japan as a teenager, I ordered a huge stack of back issues of Maru Special, and 20 years later, still have a shelf full of them. TONS of black and white photos. And indeed Japanese ships in WWII looked...weird. But as usual, that's why I liked them so. And their stories were so interesting and tragic!

- Fuso...blew up spectacularly in what was possibly the last major surface action of the war, at Surigao strait (if you don't count Leyte Gulf which happened, like, the next day). Her sister ship, Yamashiro, continued on toward a long line of old US battlewagons--many refloated after being sunk at Pearl Harbor in 1941--who "crossed her T" and reduced her to scrap in no time.

- US Submarine commander Sam Dealey would signal the other sailors that he'd spotted a warship through the 'scope by saying "I see a Pagoda!"

- Hood vs. Bismarck... Well, of course HMS Hood was designed to be big and fast, but not to slug it out with an equal-length battleship. A real pity she blew up. And Bismarck's fate was especially terrible, in that the British didn't stick around to pick up many survivors, partially because of U-Boat fears, and perhaps also out of a sense of justice for the loss of the Hood. The book by Ludovic Kennedy, is one of the best books out there.

- Shinano (sister to Yamato and Musashi, although converted to a carrier) wasn't quite finished when it got hit by that submarine torpedo. I recall that damage control efforts didn't suffice, when, for instance, the packing that usually seals the gaps between conduits and bulkheads had not yet been installed. So water, once introduced by the hole in the hull, couldn't be sealed off. But by then the IJN air arm had been reduced to a ghost of its former self, and what good is a supercarrier if you've not got the trained pilots needed to fight effectively? Maybe it was best sunk quickly.

Enuf blather. Ciao-
 
Surigao Strait was the last time battleships fought battleships, but as you say, the IJN was on its last gasp. They had almost no pilots, so they sent empty carriers out to lure Halsey's fleet away to the north so they could attack the troopships with two other formations, one of which approached from the west through the strait. That force consisted of several battleships and cruisers, and ran into the ambush of Rear Adm. Jesse Oldendorf (what a great ass-kicking redneck-sounding name) who lined up his old battleships across the mouth of the strait. His torpedo boats went into the strait and attacked the IJN ships with torpedoes from the sides to soften them up, and when they got within range of Oldendorfs battleships he let them have it and finished them off. That was it for battleships as traditional surface combatants.

Iowas were refitted in the 80s with more modern weapons, and of course their armor protected them against some modern missiles, but they were mainly there as status symbols of the Reagan 600-ship navy (that never got that big), and because the USMC lobbied to keep them around for gunfire support for amphibious operations, which is what they did in 1991 along the Gulf coast in Kuwait.

Would be nice to reactivate one of them and send it to Somalia to "resolve" the pirate problem.
 
I just found a nice line drawing of the Fuso on Wikipedia, and I must say, for a former WW1 ship and when standing close, it looks even cooler as the Texas... and way cooler as the German ships of WW1 (maybe with the exception of the Bayern class)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Fuso1944.png (2 MB!)

If I ever find the time to make a RC war ship in my free time, the Fuso would be a real nice candidate - it really draws the looks on it.

On using Iowas to hunt pirates: The psychological effect would be bigger as the real protection. They are far too expensive. The main problem for the USA is, that they seem to have problems lately building small ships... what is the smallest surface combatant in the US Navy? I think the Helen Keller class is still far bigger as European corvettes.

Would be nicer to reactivate the Sea Shadow or the Pegasus for this task. The Iowa class would be IMHO nicer for gun boat diplomacy... and other representative duties.
 
True, the Iowas would be overkill for pirate hunting duty. As for the US not being able to build small ships, it's because the DOD is too busy building Cold War systems that waste lots of money and then never get delivered. I think for piracy duty you need something with a shallow drought, lots of speed, and enough armor for small arms and RPGs. It also needs to be ocean-worthy. A WWII PT boat squadron would do it, replace the torpedo tubes with more useful armament. Ernest Borgnine, time to come out of retirement?
 
True, the Iowas would be overkill for pirate hunting duty. As for the US not being able to build small ships, it's because the DOD is too busy building Cold War systems that waste lots of money and then never get delivered. I think for piracy duty you need something with a shallow drought, lots of speed, and enough armor for small arms and RPGs. It also needs to be ocean-worthy. A WWII PT boat squadron would do it, replace the torpedo tubes with more useful armament. Ernest Borgnine, time to come out of retirement?

Here's my nomination for your pirate hunter, sir!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_(ship)
 
I think for piracy duty you need something with a shallow drought, lots of speed, and enough armor for small arms and RPGs. It also needs to be ocean-worthy. A WWII PT boat squadron would do it, replace the torpedo tubes with more useful armament. Ernest Borgnine, time to come out of retirement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_class_hydrofoil

Like these? ;)

Could have been improved a bit, using modern technology, but the basic idea is still cool.

The German pirate hunter of choice is the new Braunschweig class corvette - called a boat for administrative regions, but not really worse armed as a Perry class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunschweig_class_corvette

If the U212 submarine also gets all the gimmicks planned, it would also make a nice pirate hunter - they plan for installing a 20mm cannon which can be fired while on periscope depth. As well as a small wire-guided surface-surface/surface-air missile.
 
If the U212 submarine also gets all the gimmicks planned, it would also make a nice pirate hunter - they plan for installing a 20mm cannon which can be fired while on periscope depth. As well as a small wire-guided surface-surface/surface-air missile.

That's exactly what I'd always whished we had while I was on active duty on subs. A stinger missile in a canister strapped to the top of one of our radio antennas. Just the thing to put the fear of god into an ASW helo.
 
That's exactly what I'd always whished we had while I was on active duty on subs. A stinger missile in a canister strapped to the top of one of our radio antennas. Just the thing to put the fear of god into an ASW helo.

Yeah. :lol:

Also they planned to add a small recon drone to it, but I think this plan gets a bit "too much stuff" currently. The IDAS missile and the cannon are already far in development, but the drone not.

A submarine is not really the best pirate hunter as it is rather slow, but it has other advantages.
 
Yeah. :lol:

Also they planned to add a small recon drone to it, but I think this plan gets a bit "too much stuff" currently. The IDAS missile and the cannon are already far in development, but the drone not.

A submarine is not really the best pirate hunter as it is rather slow, but it has other advantages.

It would be a good platfor for covertly watching the way pirates do business, but I don't think there's much usefull to be learned there. A small, fast surface combatant is a far better platform. Even if it does not attack it serves as a deterrant.
 
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