Project VesselBuilder for Orbiter

[fred18]

How about a message, when you close the dialog box, it asks "Do you want to save the changes ?" That way, if you've gotten confused, while making the changes (which often happens to me) you can just say no and the changes won't be made. Then you can just reopen where you started and make new changes. Just a suggestion.

It is surely a good idea. I have a question then on which procedure would the users prefer:
- the procedure I want to implement will make a backup anytime you open the dialog so in case you get confused you close the sim and to restore the previous config you should open the backups file and copy/paste to the cfg the last backup saved.
- In the procedure you mention that won't happen so it would be sufficient to just close and reopen the sim, so the upside is that this case would be quicker, but I also see downsides: would it bother you to have the prompt dialog everytime you close the dialog? if you need to do it many times for checking an animation for example wouldn't it be a bit cumbersome? And what happens if you click "no" wrongly? you would loose the entire set of modifications (how many times did this happened to me with other softwares...) while with the procedure I thought to implement you always have the current settings and the backup settings available. So it's a matter of preferences. The truth is that there should be also a general preferences settings configurator but at the moment is the lowest priority...

 

[Donamy]

I agree with the hitting the "no" button tragedy. Almost need a second warning, "Are you sure you don't want to save it ?" :rofl:

What ever you decide, will be the way to go.

 

[4throck]

I had a CTD and lost all the last edits I made to the ship.
Even the backup doesn't have them (I added lights and then landing points).

It seems to have reverted to the last time I run VB before the CTD, and not to the last stable vessel configuration.
Does this make any sense?

 

[fred18]

I had a CTD and lost all the last edits I made to the ship.
Even the backup doesn't have them (I added lights and then landing points).

It seems to have reverted to the last time I run VB before the CTD, and not to the last stable vessel configuration.
Does this make any sense?

yes it makes sense: the cfg is saved only if you save it (which means you have to save the scenario with either CTRL+S or with orbiter menu) or when you exit the sim (because the scn gets automatically saved in that case). So if the module CTDs in the middle of a modification and you did not save the scn the modifications are gone... It would be easy to set an autosave option of the cfg, like every minute. I'm just afraid that for the big vessels it would slow down the sim a bit, but maybe it is better to se a moment of slowdown every minute and be sure not to loose anything?

What action caused the CTD anyway? So I can trackdown the issue.

 

[4throck]

OK I get it.
So to save I must exit Orbiter.
Exit with no changes means forcing a CTD

I got a CTD like this (From memory, might not be 100% accurate):
- Added the default landing points (didn't input height above ground or radius) and placed the vessel at Brighton Beach.
- Orientation was wrong, I selected "tail sitter" so I tried to add the points again.
- Orbiter places me in deep space (as expected). I try to place the vessel again on Brighton Beach and I get a CTD.

It seems to be Orbiter related, not VB.
This is expected for landing point definition in real time I think.

 

[fred18]

OK I get it.
So to save I must exit Orbiter.
Exit with no changes means forcing a CTD

No, I didn't say that, it should work, and it seems to me it does, modifications or not. And to save you have to save the scenario. It saves also if you exit orbiter because in that case orbiter saves the scenario automatically

I got a CTD like this (From memory, might not be 100% accurate):
- Added the default landing points (didn't input height above ground or radius) and placed the vessel at Brighton Beach.
- Orientation was wrong, I selected "tail sitter" so I tried to add the points again.
- Orbiter places me in deep space (as expected). I try to place the vessel again on Brighton Beach and I get a CTD.

It seems to be Orbiter related, not VB.
This is expected for landing point definition in real time I think.

Nope it's not the real time definitions, it is that height above ground and radius MUST be specified, I will put a safety check on that. You can define TD points whenever you want, but if you use the default option you must specify height and radius or Orbiter will crash.

 

[4throck]

Perhaps the default points should also define a default height and radius ?

 

[fred18]

Perhaps the default points should also define a default height and radius ?

Yep that s my idea as well, i ll use the size parameter of the general settings

 

[4throck]

I can't do this right now and I don't want to derail the discussion, but how about a script that converted a SC4 config into a VB config ?
Both are text based, and writing a parser is not that complex...

I'm thinking about tedious things like thruster definitions and animations.
It would be great to start with those defined and work from there....

 

[Donamy]

Fred did you release a non-debug .dll yet ?

 

[fred18]

I can't do this right now and I don't want to derail the discussion, but how about a script that converted a SC4 config into a VB config ?
Both are text based, and writing a parser is not that complex...

I'm thinking about tedious things like thruster definitions and animations.
It would be great to start with those defined and work from there....

It seems to me that you see the potential in VB as I did, and I am very happy that it is appreciated. I had the very same thought about making a converter from one to the other. I just hope that once the VB is finished someone of the good programmers that are here will have the willingness to do it. In case nobody does it then I will put that in the schedule

Fred did you release a non-debug .dll yet ?

Yep, I just got home, there you go, attached

 

[fred18]

Working hard on reconfiguration setup. It's really a big topic since the whole parsing and writing has to be filtered by the configuration manager... anyway we will get to the finish soon.

I won't let the sections for exhausts textures and particles definitions to be reconfigured since it has no meaning: a user can define as many exhausts textures and particles definitions as he wants at the beginning and then simply use any of them in any configuration he wants, so there is no point in "reconfigure" them

 

[4throck]

After some more testing, one thing that stands out, from a usability POV, are thrusters.

It's tedious to input those locations one by one, connect fuel source, etc, and then repeat the process for visual effects. Specially for RCS quads.
Thrusters are really something that breaks the flow of creation.

I suggest that you add a RCS quad generator function. It's relatively easy, since quads are symmetrical, so you only need a "root" location and orientation.

 

[fred18]

It's tedious to input those locations one by one, connect fuel source, etc, and then repeat the process for visual effects.

With the follow me tool and the "show thrusrester" option it should be much easier to do that and it should not be necessary to redo everything for visual effects, if you don't choose the custom dir/pos option then the thruster's dir and position will be used.

I suggest that you add a RCS quad generator function. It's relatively easy, since quads are symmetrical, so you only need a "root" location and orientation.

There is a RCS generator tool already, IIRC you have to go to the tree menu in the dialog in the ThrusterGroup section. Then the button for this option appears. It creates a default RCS system which will generate the appropriate translational and rotational accelerations, and then you will have to just input the exhausts for your thrusters. It does not add groups that are already defined, so if you want to define an RCS system from scratch be sure that no thurster groups besides main, retro and hover are defined. The quad could be an option for a future implementation, even though they are not always used or symmetrical. I'll note it down for a second round implementation.

EDIT: Actually I have to say that I thought that with the follow me tool with copy/paste vectors it would have been much easier and funnier to do this... did you try it? shall I make it different?

---------- Post added at 14:01 ---------- Previous post was at 13:38 ----------

In the meantime I finally finished the parsing/writing filter for the configuration manager, it seems to work fine.

In order to allow reconfiguration I had to change the cfg items of the General Settings part, so if you have some addons which already define them remember to change them (it's just a couple of values luckily).

 

[4throck]

EDIT: Actually I have to say that I thought that with the follow me tool with copy/paste vectors it would have been much easier and funnier to do this... did you try it? shall I make it different?

What is the follow me tool :lol: ? I thought that Paste was not working... because I see no Copy...
Really what is it ? Is there a button somewhere? :facepalm:

VB creates a default RCS set and that's a good start. It only needs two small changes to be perfect:
- Add visual exhausts by default (same vector as thrusters)
- If given an offset point, instead of one create 4 default RCS sets. You'd generate 4 sets, for 4 quads. No need to rotate vectors, just use translation and assume simple symmetry. The user then deletes the inward facing thrusters. Think about Apollo and how you could automate that.

 

[fred18]

What is the follow me tool :lol: ? I thought that Paste was not working... because I see no Copy...
Sorry, all else is very user friendly, but this part of the UI is not

Try it!!!!!

[CTRL]+[SHIFT]+[SPACEBAR] = Activate/DeActivate the FollowMe Tool

FollowMe Tool
The tool can be moved and rotated using the Dialog but I personally prefer to use its keys. TRICK: the speed
of the tool is fixed against simulation time, so if you want it to move quicker or slower accelerates or slow
down the simulation.
[UP]/[DOWN]/[LEFT]/[RIGHT] arrows = move the tool forward/backward/left/right[ALT]+[UP]/[DOWN] = move the tool upward/downward
[SHIFT]+ [UP]/[DOWN]/[LEFT]/[RIGHT] = rotate the tool along x and y axis
[SHIFT] + [PGUP]/[PGDWN] = rotate the tool along z axis;

---------- Post added 19th Mar 2019 at 09:02 ---------- Previous post was 18th Mar 2019 at 16:37 ----------

So, about reconfigurations:
- each vessel will have multiple configurations available
- the base configuration will always be number 0 and will always have all the sections defined
- the alternate configurations may have any section
- They will appear in the dialog as alternate of the main vessel
- The user will be able to add a reconfiguration choosing which section wants to reconfigure.
- With the dialog open the user may pass from one configuration to the other easily, for normal usage reconfiguration must be set through events
- While developing it will be possible to modify only the active configuration, while information for other configurations may be seen but not modified.
- Meshes for all the configurations are pleoaded at the beginning. This doesn't affect regular vessels with just one configuration possible, slows down a bit the startup for multiple config vessels, but it avoids to have a moment of stop during the sim when a reconfiguration with new meshes to be loaded happens.

This is a crazy amount of job but is on the way to be finished: each section stores all the information of all configurations, then each manager queries the configuration manager for information and it's the config manager who choose whether to reply with stored information or with live information from the sim. The code about all this became a step more complex than it was before, I'm never happy when the code gets too complicated, but the multiple configuration is something that will add an enormous quantity of options, so it's good to bring it to the end.

Just to give a couple of examples of the possiblities:
- Multistage vessels are possible in many ways, and even assembled space planes with aerodynamic change at each structural change event
- Damages can be simulated: a reconfiguration event can be set for example with the dynamic pressure level as trigger, if it gets too high the vessel gets reconfigured for a new one with damages...

So I'll work to finish it, even though it will take some days more because the quantity of work for this thing is honestly very big.

 

[Donamy]

Will VB be able to trigger an abort, with one key ? Simultaneously separating from the booster, firing the abort thrusters, deploying drogues and mains ?

 

[fred18]

Will VB be able to trigger an abort, with one key ? Simultaneously separating from the booster, firing the abort thrusters, deploying drogues and mains ?

Anything else? :lol:

Just joking. I don't see why not it will be a matter of constructing the right sequence of events, the first of them will be triggered by a keypress.

I have to say that I have many ideas for events triggering. Such as: acceleration threshold, thruster/thrustergroup level etc. So in theory it could be programmed to actually work even by itself

Also for an abort demo mission the first event could be triggered by altitude or by mission elapsed time automatically instead of coming from a keypress, so it will just work by itself.

I again can't wait to resume my work on the events, but first I have to finish this (big) reconfiguration part.

 

[4throck]

Try it!!!!!
[CTRL]+[SHIFT]+[SPACEBAR] ...

Will try! Can you display those shortcuts inside VB ? It would help

I know you are doing other more important things, but here's another suggestion *:
- Connect an animation to a vessel parameter. Ex: a fuel indicator that moves based on an animation, where the step is related to fuel amount.

But finish the current version first please!


* I'm just sharing my enthusiasm, not trying to burden you with work.
I'm happy with what you are giving us!

 

[Donamy]

Having an issue with thrusters. Pitching up/dn affects perapsis/apoapsis. Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong ?