Hardware Upgrading my Graphics card

Grover

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yo all:

i want to upgrade my graphics card so it can handle better with some of the newer games out there, but it seems like a world of confusion and on my own, im bound to cock it up.

so, my current PC runs with an ATI Radeon 3000 (thats all it says) and im looking to improve on it without getting into the hardcore gamer stuff, which is way overpriced for my liking

how do i tell whether or not a new graphics card is compatible with my computer, and will i need to worry about drivers? any suggestions for cards will also be nice

thanks guys!
 
Grover, its all about budgets (IE. you get what you pay for) the more you pay the better the card will be.

I recently upgraded my Graphics from an ATI HD 4870 to an ATI 6850 HD and had to some research in to my motherboard's specs to see if it would work.

First thing is to know what your motherboard can support, PCI, PCI-EX ect.. You can find this out from your manual if you have it or some where in the control panel (i cant find the option at the moment but it is there some where).
Next work out who much you are willing to spend.
Then start shopping.

A good site to start with is www.dabs.com


As for drivers you will probably need to update them but they are easy to find at the manufacturers websites.

Edit:

The tool at this site can get you your pc spacs quickly and easily www.gtopala.com
 
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yo all:

i want to upgrade my graphics card so it can handle better with some of the newer games out there, but it seems like a world of confusion and on my own, im bound to cock it up.

If you want to improve your system, you need to look for more than your graphics card. You also need internal memory, a nice processor,,, that kind of stuff..
 
If you want to improve your system, you need to look for more than your graphics card. You also need internal memory, a nice processor,,, that kind of stuff..

While true, for gaming the first bottleneck to look for is the graphics card.

I recently got myself a Geforce GTX 560 Ti for a very reasonable price, replacing the solid Geforce 8600 I previously had in there. Both are PCI-E cards - I recommend google searching for your current card name to find out what kind of card you currently have.

Also, check the strength and connectors on your power supply. Most cards come with a minimum power requirement and if the PSU can't cope with the requirement your system will become as stable as a jelly windbreaker. Also the more modern PCI-E cards have additional connectors for more power (The 560 has two) known simply as PCI-E power connectors. If your supply doesn't have them you can get adapters to plug the molex drive power connectors in, but it's better to have them straight from the PSU.

Other considerations are physical size. Newer cards tend to take up two slots now with their heatsinks blocking off a PCI slot and they can be quite long. Do you have a compact case or a shortage of PCI slots? Both will limit what card you can install. If your case is overcramped you may also run into cooling issues with the card. Mine just butts into the hard drive bays and with the two PCI-E power connectors in the back of the card I've lost a hard drive bay.

The rule of thumb as far as money goes is to shoot as high up the range as you can can afford to. Being an nvidia man myself, I have little experience of ATI's range, but I picked up the 8600 (nice small solid DX10 card, no PCI-E power connectors required) for £75 and the GTX 560 for £180.

Take a good look at your budget and an even better look at your setup. If your monitor only accepts VGA input you'll need an adapter for a card with only DVI output. If you're light on RAM you may need to install more to get the system running properly with the new card too.

Those are all the things I considered anyway :p
 
ok, ill try and find out some stuff about my motherboard, and my card itself, then get back to you guys, id better check with you guys before i buy anything and screw my system over

thanks

---------- Post added at 01:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 PM ----------

alright, heres the specs for my system as it is now: (three screenshots from a handy program)
picture.php

picture.php

picture.php


and this is teh card i hope to get
and its breakdown:
Code:
40nm technology

RoHS compliant

OpenGL 3.1 optimizations

Microsoft DirectX 10.1

Shader Model 4.1

PCI-E 2.0

HDCP support

HDMI ready

CUDA technology

PhyX technology

Highlights of the Gigabyte GeForce GT 240 600Mhz 1GB PCI-Express 2.0 HDMI

40nm technology
RoHS compliant
OpenGL 3.1 optimizations
Microsoft DirectX 10.1
Shader Model 4.1
PCI-E 2.0
HDCP support
HDMI ready
CUDA technology
PhyX technology

is the card compatible with my system? i presume it will have room since my computer isnt small in any way: its actualy quite a big piece of kit

thanks guys!
 
If you want to improve your system, you need to look for more than your graphics card. You also need internal memory, a nice processor,,, that kind of stuff..

And at this point it usually becomes a new system. Generally a new type of cpu needs a new mobo, and a new mobo needs new ram. And a new mobo can use the latest graphics cards. Now you need a new supply to power it all. And a new case to provide extra fans and air-flow, pretty much left over is the 212mb hard disk from 1993, so why not upgrade that to a spiffy 3tb drive, just make sure your bios can support it!

Upgrades for a good performance increase usually mean major parts swappage or whole new systems. Upgrades for functionality are ok to do.


Just be sure you have an open slot and you should be good to go.
Just to point out, that program says you have a 760G or 780G northbridge, which is it? Conflicting info there..
 
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From those screenshots I get the strong suspicion that the graphics "card" you have at the moment is an integrated chipset. You can tell by looking at the back - if the port you plug your screen into is on the same panel as the mouse / keyboard / redundant printer port then it's coming from the motherboard alone.

To accurately determine whether your motherboard and power supply will support that card you'll need to open it up. Shut it off completely and unplug the power line into the PSU, then pop the left hand case side off and take a look at the motherboard. If you have a PCI-E slot you're not using you'll see the vacant slot - take a picture and post it if you're not sure. Also take a look at any stickers you can see on the power supply (It's the little self-contained box at the top and back which you plug the power lead into) - they should tell you the wattage it supports.

That card does not seem to require any additional PCI-E connectors and will run on a 300W power supply as recommended by nVidia - the more power you have in the system above this amount, the better. I'd suggest 350 - 400W would be a good minimum power capacity to fuel it.

If you can't find any stickers on it, post some pictures and try to find out some product names, and we'll try to do the systech's detective agency job on it. ;)
 
Half year ago I bought Ati Radeon HD 5670. My motherboard has integrated Ati Radeon HD 4200, and Orbiter worked good on it, but other games not. I decided to buy Radeon HD 5670 because its not very expensive and I didnt have to upgrade my PSU (I have 450 W).
This card dont need much power,and (so far) I can play all games I want to. And Orbiter works like a charm!
 
ill get right on it, give me a sec

---------- Post added at 04:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:22 PM ----------

aw snap! i bought a computer with everything intergrated except the RAM. no power extentions, no PCI, no nothing. looks like i either make do with what i have or i buy a new computer... and i cant afford a new computer :(
 
i guess mine is good enoguh for the time being, and easily good enough for orbiter. even with some of the draining scenarios, it runs fine, and i can upgrade the RAM at least without the fuss. then i might make a computer from scratch when i come round to it again.
any ideas roughly how much the components of a computer would cost altogether? (motherboard, PCU, Graphics, processor, just enough to get it gaming) a friend of mine said he did this and it turned out cheaper than a factory made one of similar specs

thanks for the help anyway guys, ive learned a fair bit about hardware on this thread alone, im sure ill get the hang of it eventually
 
In total my current system cost about £500 - however it started out at a sub-£200 machine. I got a new motherboard and AMD Athlon II X2 3GHz dual core CPU for about £60 all told. 2GB of RAM (now upped to 8) set me back another £30 or so, PSU £30, and the "holdover" card I got was the 8600 mentioned above at £75 or so. All in the system came in just under £200 though I already had hard and optical drives and a chassis.

Since then I upped the power to an 850 watt beastie to feed the hungry graphics card and threw a few more gigglebytes of RAM at it and now it runs like greased stink.

Mind showing a few snaps of your PC, inside and out? I'm curious to see just how compact it is...
 
hang on, could i just buy a new motherboard, transfer the hardware (hard drive, disk drive, CPU and RAM) into the new motherboard, replace the old motherboard with the new one (which now has the same kit) then plug in a graphics card, sound card etc?

i know its a total ball ache, but in the future i might have the money and patience to do it
 
...Mind showing a few snaps of your PC, inside and out? I'm curious to see just how compact it is...

...my computer isnt small in any way: its actualy quite a big piece of kit...
It sounded like it wasn't compact at all.

hang on, could i just buy a new motherboard, transfer the hardware (hard drive, disk drive, CPU and RAM) into the new motherboard...
Your main concern is how old your actual MoBo is and wich CPU you have.
Will the new MoBo accept it?
 
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i dont even see why it needs the room, short of fitting in the power box and the disk drives, its just a big empty box. i wish i could fill it with some actual computing stuff, but i guess not
 
Big computers looked impressive, made you think you were really getting something. As far as a motherboard goes. Well, be sure it is not proprietary to HP or anything like that. Then you need a new cpu to go with the new mobo, then new ram.. it basically goes on till you have a new computer. Sometimes the only remaining parts are the monitor, mouse, and keyboard.

And as time goes on, it will become more and more like that.

Are you telling me you have no pci-e slots?? Well that is definitely not surprising, because the chipset you have was made in the "era" of extreme cost cutting. And not including slots or extra ram sockets often saved $0.15 per motherboard. An astronomical savings when you make a cookie-cutter computer and sell to the masses.!

---------- Post added at 12:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------

Let's see those pics.
 
i didnt bother with pics, theres nothing on the motherboard, just a CPU which MIGHT be removable , two sticks of RAM which i can change, then just soldering and intergrated stuff
 
My philosophy of upgrading has always been this. You can very easily (and cost-effectively) upgrade for diversity and functionality - like printers, scanners, joysticks, speakers, monitors, hard disks/storage, other i/o devices, cameras, etc..

You CANNOT cost-effectively upgrade for performance. And if you do, the full capability of the new component is usually overshadowed and bogged-down by the existing hardware; thereby necessitating replacement of additional components.

A new processor is often held back by the chipset, the front-side bus, the ram, and other little things.

Faster ram rarely makes a difference. More of it works wonders up to a point, assuming your system was faulty in the first place. By faulty, I mean that it didn't have enough memory to begin with. So you see, when you upgrade ram, you are really correcting a design fault at the factory. The system was not engineered with the correct amount of memory in the first place.

Graphics?? Well now, just how fast can your CPU and bus and memory and interface feed data to the GPU on the graphics board? And if your graphics card is not "matched" to the system you get all sorts of stutters and the cpu can bog itself down by trying to manage sophisticated drivers which are never gonna be utilized to their full extent by the graphics card (because your cpu can't feed it fast enough) anyways!

Take for example, a plant. It will grow x amount of inches a year given optimal conditions. Getting it to grow faster than normal usually takes extra measures that are not worth the time and money (unless you do weed). However, getting it to grow in multiple places and splitting it up into 2 or 3 plants is pretty easy, cost effective, and now you have more functionality, more decoration, you see..

Notice how I left out hard disks..? Well, they are the slowest part of a system, even the new breed of SSD's are still pretty bad. A hard drive holds X amount of data, and that is it! Finito! Done! Benchmarking hard disks is pretty much a waste of time. You buy one, you plug it in, you are done. Hemming and hawwing over what model and this and that yields little gain. It didn't used to be that way, but now it is.

Soon all parts will be that way. Ram speed is pretty much irrelevant, if not, it's getting there. Graphics will be soon too, with the new intel chips. Sure there'll be room for those overgrown hot and heavy videocards. But with cost cutting and CONVENIENCE and reliability (driver stability) becoming ever more important. People are gonna start leaning toward on-die graphics more and more. It will become a standard. And programmers will realize that and begin to code in a more efficient manner for those chips. And they will improve with time. And within 3-4 years, they'll supersede add-in videocards.

Remember, the add-in videoboard came to be (30 years ago) because the CPU was not capable of drawing stuff on the screen fast enough, or at all!! But today that is changing. Especially with multi-core and whatnot. And having a graphics "sub-unit" right on the die of the CPU means you can get enormous bandwidth between the so-called graphics processing unit and your main CPU. First now we're putting the gpu close to the cpu, soon it will actually be part of the x86 pipeline.

The cpu and southbridge + a tiny dac effectively eliminated the soundcard. On board sound is good enough for over 90% of masses that buy systems. The market is too small to really pull a profit with add-in sound cards. We are now seeing the same thing with graphics.

First, we'll see the chips (cpu with graphics onboard) become standard. And software mfg's *WILL* have to code for them. Efficiently too I might add. The external add-on graphics card will become a specialty item. And good-riddance to it too! Graphics cards are responsible for so many unstable machines, and their shoddily written drivers just fuel the fire. Look at how often nvidia and ati/amd updates their drivers. On a weekly basis. For cryinoutloud can't they get it right the first time?

Built-in-to-the-CPU graphics or on-die (not integrated graphics though, that's graphics on the northbridge) graphics will help ensure stable drivers. I'm sure that intel won't stand for unstable drivers. Intel chips are known world-wide for stability and performance and would do them a world of hurt if their "graphics" crashed and caused mountains of problems like nvidia and amd/ati add-in boards do.

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 PM ----------

i didnt bother with pics, theres nothing on the motherboard, just a CPU which MIGHT be removable , two sticks of RAM which i can change, then just soldering and intergrated stuff

Ok then, looks like you need a new motherboard, a new power supply, new ram, new cpu, and then your new graphics card. I'd save up for a new computer rather than upgrading this one.
 
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well, that sorted it out:

wait a few years then go for a fully intergrated set

one thing though: computers advance very quickly, games in 10 years time will destroy any computer we have now (unless you spent over 1.5k on a new one), so wouldnt that then mean that you cant upgrade a computer, only replace it, which will become very cost inefficient as you have to completely replace a computer every 10 years or so
 
This what U gots -- http://bizsupport1.austin.hp.com/bi...portFAQ&prodSeriesId=4169543&prodTypeId=12454

If so -- cheap stuff, note all the missing un-stuffed component spaces, Here is a pic and I marked the missing (read as COST CUTTING) parts in red brackets.

c02557038.jpg

Most prominently missing is the pci-e slot and 2 ram simm-slots. There are variety of audio ports and extra sata ports not stuffed as well.
What hare-brained engineer would want to use an intel southbridge with an amd northbridge? One that is under pressure from upper management. They used and intel chip for the southbridge just so they could use intel's name on the box (or in advertisements) as amd is known for less then stellar chipset design.

There are many inconsistencies with specs given too. Indicates shoddy documentation that is incomplete and not accurate. Sorry for ranting, but trash like this should not be allowed in the marketplace.

This is a proper motherboard with no missing parts, and little cost cutting involved in the design. Please don't mention overclocking, as overclocking is a fanboi activity for those with nothing better to do with their computers.. -- http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Desktop...BT8C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300774822&sr=8-1
 
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