News Terror attacks in Mumbai!

thomasantony

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There has been terror attacks in 10 places in Mumbai!. Its all over the news. God! .. they attacked the main railway station, and lots of hotels around the area. Many people including police officers were killed. This includes the chief of Anti-Terror Squad.

The latest report say at least 87 kileld and more than 200 injured.
New Delhi - At least 60 people were feared killed in a series of shootings and explosions by suspected terrorists late Wednesday in Mumbai, India's financial hub, police and news reports said.
Police confirmed there had been several attacks by heavily armed gunmen. The Oberoi Trident and Taj hotels were among areas affected, as were cinema halls, a hospital, and Mumbai's main railway terminus.
Armed gunmen were holed up in the Oberoi Trident, where the lobby was on fire, and at the Taj Hotel and the Chhatrapati Shivaji railway terminus, Mumbai's busiest railway station, police said.
There were reports that several guests, many of them foreigners, had been taken hostage at the Taj and Trident hotels.
Three senior police officials including Heman Karkare, chief of the Maharashtra state anti-terrorist squad had been killed in encounters, NDTV television channel reported.
The federal government had dispatched 200 National Security Guard commandoes from capital Delhi to help Maharashtra police. The NSG are specially trained for hostage operations. Mumabi is capital of Maharashtra state.
The army and navy have been kept on alert, India's federal Home Minister Shivraj Patil said.
Two suspected terrorists who were escaping from the Trident hotel had been killed, and three suspected terrorists had been arrested, police said.
'Heavily armed gunmen attacked in seven places,' AN Roy, director general of Maharashtra police said.
'They are holed up in three places including the Taj and Trident hotels. We have surrounded them and an encounter is going on,' Roy said.
He said guests were being evacuated to safer places.
Roy said it was difficult to give a toll of the casualties at this time.
Mumbai's rail network was the target of serial bombings by terrorists in July 2006. At least 187 people were killed and more than 700 injured in those incidents.
~
Thomas
 
Heartbraking.........

IMHO These are, in part, the symptoms of the virus of irrationality.
 
CNN now reporting 101 dead. Some group with an Islamist-sounding name ("Deccin Mujahadeen") has claimed responsibility, but no confirmation. Lots of hostages taken and gunfire still being heard, 13 hours after it began. Hostages have been freed from at least one hotel. Taj Mahal Hotel is on fire.

Sounds just awful. The police have their hands full. Isrealis and other Jews have apparently been singled out, and the Isreali embassy reports that they are trying to locate some 20 Isrealis who haven't turned up yet.

Best of luck to you folks in India in sorting this out.
 
Initially some of the terrorists singled out British and American nationals. Hostage situations are still on at two or three of the places.

From the way the attack was co-ordinated seems like the "Deccan Mujahideen" may be something from Al Queida/Taliban. There are reports that the weapons and ammo came via boat from Karachi.
 
Its been all over the news here.

A guy who was holed up in one of the hotels called one of the Australian television channels to try and get some help. They put him live-to-air on the morning chat show before they realised he wasn't calling to talk about the news, he was the news. When they realised their mistake they took him off air and put him through to Dept. Foreign Affairs.
 
Well, it is too early for me to say anything useful about it. The Internet is already flooded with false information about the event, will take a while until it settles. What starts to become clear: The Indian police response to the event is even worse as the strategy of the attackers.
 
Agreed. The attackers were a pretty well organised group of people who seem to have done exactly what they intended. The police, however, appear to be an unorganised group of people who don't even know what they should be doing.

Still, looks like it's more or less over now. Aside from the obvious human losses, this will really hurt India's tourism economy for the next few years.
 
Agreed. The attackers were a pretty well organised group of people who seem to have done exactly what they intended. The police, however, appear to be an unorganised group of people who don't even know what they should be doing.

The biggest genius among the terrorists seems to be a guy, who did not take part in the attacks - the timing and coordination was great, but the tactical behavior of the terrorists was pretty amateur-like. As far as I heard from EU politicians who had been in one of the hotels, the terrorists had almost no concept about which hostages to take - reports about especially western tourists being selected seem to be wrong at the current state of information.

Still, looks like it's more or less over now. Aside from the obvious human losses, this will really hurt India's tourism economy for the next few years.

Not too bad from my point of view, regarding the fact that the attack clearly showed the many weaknesses in the civil infrastructure of India. What western tourists consider a "pitoresque everyday chaos", is more a gathering of unsolved problems hidden under the veil of Indian nationalism.

Of course, the Indians will think different about it, and will like to have growing tourism ASAP. But unless India reduces their own demands on themselves, having tourists hiding in Tourist fortresses, driving quickly through the region in tourists APCs will not be the goal.
 
9/11 had timing and coordination...
India strikes had timing and coordination...
Could weapon manufacturers be the organizers of this event, as a "weapons fair" to increase weapon sales in a time of world crisis?
 
Could weapon manufacturers be the organizers of this event, as a "weapons fair" to increase weapon sales in a time of world crisis?

Feel free to assume it, but you have no evidence to prove it - and it is pretty unlikely you will get some. And any mother has better organization skills as needed for this.

Also it is pretty easy to hide in India.
 
There are some sick people in this world... Let's at least keep these people in our thoughts and be happy that not all religions become breeding grounds for fanatics.
 
I'm busy with other projects and will be away from Orbiter for quite some time, but I stopped in to see what was going on. Naturally, I checked out the Mumbai thread. And, naturally, I see this:

9/11 had timing and coordination...
India strikes had timing and coordination...
Could weapon manufacturers be the organizers of this event, as a "weapons fair" to increase weapon sales in a time of world crisis?

Until this kind of thinking gives way to reality, incidents like the one in Mumbai will continue, and will get worse and worse. There really is such a thing as good and bad, better and worse in the world. There is a real enemy of civilization, and it is extremely well funded and capable of highly organized violence. 13.4% of the population of India is Muslim. That's about 150 million people. That segment of the population is growing the fastest, and has the highest unemployment rate. The influence of salafist doctrine in Indian Mosques is steadily growing. The problems caused by all this are not going to get better; they're going to get worse. More and more people are going to be murdered. That's reality.

And it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with "weapon manufacturers," unless you consider ideology a weapon.
 
Until this kind of thinking gives way to reality, incidents like the one in Mumbai will continue, and will get worse and worse. There really is such a thing as good and bad, better and worse in the world. There is a real enemy of civilization, and it is extremely well funded and capable of highly organized violence. 13.4% of the population of India is Muslim. That's about 150 million people. That segment of the population is growing the fastest, and has the highest unemployment rate. The influence of salafist doctrine in Indian Mosques is steadily growing. The problems caused by all this are not going to get better; they're going to get worse. More and more people are going to be murdered. That's reality.

And it doesn't have ANYTHING to do with "weapon manufacturers," unless you consider ideology a weapon.

I was presenting a theory... a possible one.

Some other theories could also presume that an american union might want US jobs to go back to US, or that Pakistanis want US jobs in India to move to Pakistan... Scifi possibilities are countless.

The idea of weapon manufacturers is that a union or a bunch of activists of "move jobs from India" would not have the proper planning, that a company might have.

Good timing and coordination in the planning level, and amateurish execution suggests that those who plan and those who execute may have a gap in culture and performance, which could be typical in an operation where covert action would be needed.

I am just thinking about the possibilities... scifi possibilities.

It makes me feel sad when people die in such a way, no matter if they are americans, indians or extraterrestrials.
One thing is certain. You join civilization when you work with others and share the result of your work. Jobs are the work, and money allows you to enjoy the result of your work. Curiously, those who are unemployed and might like to work, just can't. So those who have a job are overworked, while unemployed are idle and unable to enjoy the advantages of civilization. Unemployment is being exiled from society. With no job, no money, you may see a restaurant with delicious food, but you cannot eat.

Interestingly, our system distributes wealth through employment, and it had downsizing that reduces payrolls, to exclude people from civilization, because of profit. With higher unemployment, less people have less money, and that leads to recession as the economic size of market shrinks. How can you have a market economy if you have no market? How good is a company without customers? Isn't it a sample of inefficiency of our system to have unemployed people who could be customers in the market, employed, instead of having them unemployed and poor?

Terrorism, crime, poverty. This the predatory behavior that takes place when people are excluded from civilization. Something will have to change inthe way capitalis is redesigned. Market is like trees in a forest. Unemployment is deforestation. If forest run out of trees, wood industry is out of business. If market runs out of customers, capitalism is gone. It would be replaced by predatory behavior, and that is the end of civilization. It is better to have everyone enjoying a job, and having everyone enjoying the advantages of civilization.

The curious thing is that in a globalized world, poverty makes poor countries more competitive in the globalized job market. US jobs flee because of that. 1 american costs the wage of 15 chinese. So jobs flee. Companies will not sacrifice profit for patriotic reasons. They go where the best deal is. So if you have poverty elsewhere, you may lose your job... That is interesting, for it means that feeling indifference towards misery elsewhere could harm our way of life. There are no countries anymore, just a single planet...
 
I am just thinking about the possibilities... scifi possibilities.

What about the possibility of this being real? Really dead people? Really injured people? Really damaged buildings?

It is already sick enough IMHO, when I start speculating about the organization behind, based on the very little evidence I have. It treats dead humans as figures and numbers, and I am aware of it.

But it gets worse when people speculate free of any evidence and start mixing reality and fiction. The result of such history slaughtering can be seen in the movie "Pearl Harbor".
 
I hope the individuals responsible, directly and indirectly, get to face the families of the victims.

I also hope this does not escalate to a national level.

My sympathies to all the injured, physically and emotionally.
 
I would love to see no people dead.
When there is a problem, I try to figure out how to solve it.
I have reverse engineered fraud schemes in a previous job.
So when you have elements that suggest a scheme, you may start to investigate if that scheme is present.
This "scifi thinking" is the same initial thinking of reverse engineering of a detective.

If weapon manufacturers are organizing a "weapons fair" in a 9/11 fashion to sell weapons to India, that would be insulting. I am not just theorizing for intellectual pleasure. If it happens, sooner or later weapon manufacturers will make a mistake and will be exposed. Murphy's laws will work against them some day if this is happening. After 9/11 weapons manufacturers had a big boost in sales. Someone will have to track their sales from now on...

The day when Columbia burned, 7 astronauts died. That very same day 40 real people in India died in a train accident. Who care about those poor people? Nobody did, but I did. I did not forget that media thought 7 astronauts were more important than 40 poor in India. Nobody remembers those 40 people, real people.
 
And untold more died in car accidents around the world, not to mention starvation or illness. So what's your point?
By the way, detectives do not "reverse engineer" the perpetrator scheme - they only do that in movies. Reverse engineering applies to technology, not to the human mind. In any investigation you always analyze the evidence and work from that. Anything else is not acceptable.
 
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