School Project

[Will]

Hello,

Ideas have changed since this initial post see post number 24.

I seek guidance from fellow followers of the probe .I have been given a school project (called an EPQ if anyone cares) that allows me to do pretty much anything and I have decided to design and launch a rocket! I would quite like an original fuel or material not used before (but that I can actually get hold of) and also need general help! Any ideas?

Thanks,

Will

EDIT: Deadline is Christmas this year

 

[Jarod]

A water rocket but with pressurized cola and mentos ? Don't know if it would work, but that would be impressive

 

[Urwumpe]

A water rocket but with pressurized cola and mentos ? Don't know if it would work, but that would be impressive

Could work, but not very high, there are better reactions to produce a large volume of high pressure gas.

How much time does the school project take? if it is one half year, you could design a simple solid fueled rocket for sure, otherwise, just building a rocket from a kit will consume the time pretty easily, without any design done.

 

[Will]

We have to finish by Christmas this year

 

[Jarod]

Christmas ? so something way more complex I guess

 

[Urwumpe]

We have to finish by Christmas this year

Then you could do your own design in that time, if you work really conservative. Maybe learn the basics by building a kit first, and then go into designing your own rocket along the model rocketry lines. Better do a simple rocket good, than have a half-finished rocket that will maybe one day be really good.

Building your complete own rocket without the hard parts being already done in off-the-shelf parts will be too much for you, even the university team here needs about 2 years for each new generation of rocket. And they are not multi-staged.

Making your own rocket engines for example, will be out of reach for you, especially in that time frame. You can sure do some experiments in that direction, like building a compressed air/petrol rocket engine prototype.

But remember: All rocket engines are controlled explosions - Which means that they can become uncontrolled explosions if you don't do them properly!

Better be really careful there. Especially solid fuel rocket engines are simple to build (they are done in makeshift workshops in the Gaza strip), but there is a reason why you need an demolitions or explosive material handling license in many places of the world to make them.

In 9 months, I would have your teacher order some fitting rocket motors from a shop, build simple rockets, launch a lot in that project time for the fun of it, and maybe experiment with what electronics you can put into a larger rocket for instrumentation for example. Like launching an Arduino board with an acceleration sensor as "inertial navigation system" for your rocket.

 

[Donamy]

dry ice and water.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Talk with your chemistry professor about high energy mixutes of per___ates and some sort of organic material as a oxidizer and fuel, respectively. The per____ates typically are perchlorates, such as potassium perchlorate or ammonium perchlorate. Just be careful, and read "Rocket Boys" by Homer Hickam Jr. to see what NOT to do! :lol:

 

[Will]

Wow I must say I'm amazed by the number of replies! Thanks everyone!

I will be going to a (fairly) local rocketry club this Sunday to see exactly what goes on and hopefully talk to a few people. I will also have a word with my chemistry/physics professors about propellant/materials.

Thanks once again!

 

[APDAF]

Rather than use mentos use rock salt it has a higher surface area.

 

[Wayland]

Here's a couple of links for you to check on, and try to get a copy of G. Harry Stine's Handbook of Model Rocketry. This will give you the basics to design your own rocket from scratch. I know, I've used it myself since 1968.

http://www.nar.org/NARforeign.html

http://www.europerocketry.com/index.php?id=309

I hope this helps a bit.

Wayland

"There is a great force that holds the Universe together, young Jedi. It's called duct tape." - Jedi Master Yoda

 

[Will]

I just had a brilliant idea! The project might be hard enough as it is (in fact it almost certainly will). Would it be possible to fit the rocket with a gyroscope, accelerometer, and tracking device and feed that data to Orbiter which would then display a real-time image of the rocket? I have no idea how feasible this is.

Thank you for all the great advice, I have a lot of information to work through now!

I have also ordered a copy of G. Harry Stine's Handbook of Model Rocketry (thank you Wayland!).

 

[Arrowstar]

You can collect data easily enough, sure. There are numerous flight computers on the market that can take and record data. How you get that into orbiter is another story, but I'm sure there are folks around who can help you there.

 

[Spacethingy]

Sounds like a version of the Extended Research Project, like I'm doing. Man, why did I go for examining bionics?! Rockets! Why didn't I think of that?! :lol:

Good luck!

 

[Will]

Ok so I've been to a couple of days at my 'local' (1.5 to 2 hours away) site and got a small kit-build rocket and launched that a few times to get a feel for it.

What about a Space Shuttle? It would have 3 motors, one in each SRB and one where the three SSMEs would be. The two SRBs would jettison and the orbiter engine would burn for a bit longer then and ET would jettison and the orbiter would glide back as a remote controlled glider. The trouble is jettisoning the SRBs and ET. I was thinking the back-thrust normally used to deploy the parachute could be directed inwards to push the SRB or ET away from the orbiter although that depends on just how powerful that is, if it is too weak then the SRBs will not be able to be held to the ET, and the ET to the orbiter, strongly enough and still separate. Also this would mean the ET and SRBs could have no recovery device but I have been informed if they are light enough that is OK.

I once again seek your superior knowledge!

Will

 

[mojoey]

Simple chutes should be enough to recover them. Also, depending on the motor, you wont have that long from launch to ET sep. So a Shuttle might not be the best choice in the world. Why not a multistage Saturn V?

 

[george7378]

EPQ - I've just finished one of those myself - I don't know if it's the same thing. I did mine on orbital debris, so there was no practical stuff in it. Good luck!

 

[Will]

Simple chutes should be enough to recover them. Also, depending on the motor, you wont have that long from launch to ET sep. So a Shuttle might not be the best choice in the world. Why not a multistage Saturn V?

I like the idea of having one that glides back to Earth under remote control. How should I shape the Orbiter itself as it's quite a complected shape to build from scratch, possibly a balsa tube for a simplified fuselage shape, balsa carved wings, and maybe some very difficult balsa carving for the cockpit area. The SRBs could just be basic tube rockets and the ET a similar idea (but no motor). What motors should I use (one in the orbiter, one in each SRB bearing in mind the separation method above)?
Also what do you think of the idea of the method of separating the SRBs and ET? Bearing in mind they couldn't have a chute this way (or could they?).

 

[Will]

Ok an awful number of people have told me a Shuttle with full staging, glider recovery etc will be nigh impossible for a beginner to do by the end of this year. As such, we (I have enlisted a minion) will probably go for a three stage Saturn V but I still plan to do something a bit different, maybe a semi-controlled landing of the CM (though I'm not too fond of that as it seems a bit of a gimmick). A potential problem is chute deployment on the CM as it won't have a motor. Perhaps a small pin or something could be set to activate after a set time and deploy the chutes? What computer programs are there that could model this?

 

[Will]

We have been doing some thinking and thought it might be interesting to find an old/untried/theoretical rocket design and see how it would perform. We will make calculations/simulations and compare these to the actual flight data (we will cram the rocket with instruments such as an altimeter, accelerometer, ASI etc). We will have to use a motor with equivalent thrust/Isp (scaled down of course) to the fuel the rocket would have used. We have looked on the internet but despite how easy I thought it might be we can't find any old designs. Any ideas?

Thanks (again),
Will