RCS Best practice Apollo

[Thespacer]

Good description indeed, I think the only qualification to add is that the description of P20 in that thread is to a later version, and not the versions available during Apollo 8 and 11 at least, which are comparatively limited. (The creation of an actual program to control PTC appears to have been the result of a crew suggestion, certainly Armstrong suggested it in the post-flight debrief).

 

[n72.75]

Yeah, that procedure is specific to Artemis072 (Apollo 15-17)

Here's a brief overview of version lineage:

 

[sw34669]

Yeah, that procedure is specific to Artemis072 (Apollo 15-17)

Here's a brief overview of version lineage:

smashing thanks. All running on something with less power than my old HP RPN calculator
Number-crunching : this comp had 2048 words of erasable mem and the 2005 European Union regulation on the sale of cabbage had 26911 words. As the Scottish people eat a lot of cabbage, this is why we mostly voted to stay in Europe.

 

[sw34669]

Good description indeed, I think the only qualification to add is that the description of P20 in that thread is to a later version, and not the versions available during Apollo 8 and 11 at least, which are comparatively limited. (The creation of an actual program to control PTC appears to have been the result of a crew suggestion, certainly Armstrong suggested it in the post-flight debrief).

yes good to see pilot workload being reduced, just incase anything horrific happens.

 

[sw34669]

someone appears to have stolen my side panel whilst we were sleeping ? That middle orbit of the moon has really gone downhill as an area ! I have no error lights

 

[indy91]

When did it happen? Just randomly when you were loading a scenario?

It is a rare, but known bug. Has been driving me slightly mad over the last year or so, because I can't replicate it reliably and often enough to debug it. It is potentially related to a bug with the code for the Virtual Cockpit in the CSM. There is a definitely a bug (caused by the VC) leading to a CTD if you try load a scenario before CSM sep and then do TD&E and try to open the CM forward hatch all in one sitting without saving/loading. jalexb88 who is working on the VCs is hopefully fixing that known bug and maybe, maybe the missing SM panel is also going away then. Fingers crossed.

 

[sw34669]

Mmmmmm , re-loading the scenario seemed to return it
I had been fiddling though, whilst learning about the glycol system, i used + and - 3kw from the PaMFD to super cool and heat the loop. Things of note 1) gyycol system low temp alarm, yes, high temp alarm, not so much ! Then I noticed the panel missing. Initially I thought it may be a cooling panel but the CSM did't have that did it ! I actually thought i'd blown it out, with steamed urine from the evap.

Joking aside, this evening brings 2 new horrors for my 800 week journey to the moon.

1) I am at the "slightly higher workload" part of LM boot + sep prep and have a few issues and questions if you would be so kind.
a) the checklist on LM and CSM around hour 97 seem to get out of sync between each other, especially when some of the yellow text is saying install hardware in CSM etc before the hatches are closed on the LM checklist.

b) There's so much going on with pads coming in for either ships and swapping back and forth, a couple of senteces, of what's important, from a context point of view, for this section of boot lm, take settings over, optics stuff, close off and detach. My problem is the yellow text in a lot of cases just doesnt have enough context. i.e. clock syncing i can do via my eye but then i discover a special option in PaMFD that does something with hitting enter in both crafts.

c) When told to don suit but not helmet or gloves should this just be left as "in cabin" in the ecs.

d) There's a leak captain ........... all was going well until hour 97. Just after my DAP Pad comes in for the CSM I switch back over to the LM and the next list I think after the computer gets setup then the CSM O2 usage to register HIGH and alarm . This doesnt stop until I close the doors much earlier that the LM checklist shows them closing. This is where I also noticed the LM and CSM checklists seem out of sync with closing doors and installing hardware etc. I also seem to be losing H2 pressure. I will attach a .scn file if you just let it run on in the CSM the leak starts. I've followed the steps for moving 2 crew to LM and they are "in cabin". Until now, the hatch between the 2 has been solid no leaks since getting to full pressure. Time acceleration will also show the depletion of the H2 pressure . I noticed it was down a lot earlier. does it just need stirred or tapped with a light cigar ?

e) The CSM gimbal numbers are different from the DAP CSM numbers i get in the pad.

As awlays , thanks in advance.
scott.

 

[indy91]

Mmmmmm , re-loading the scenario seemed to return it
I had been fiddling though, whilst learning about the glycol system, i used + and - 3kw from the PaMFD to super cool and heat the loop. Things of note 1) gyycol system low temp alarm, yes, high temp alarm, not so much ! Then I noticed the panel missing. Initially I thought it may be a cooling panel but the CSM did't have that did it ! I actually thought i'd blown it out, with steamed urine from the evap.

Two of the SM panels can be blown off, one for simulating the Apollo 13 explosion and another panel for the SIM bay for Apollo 15-17. But it of course shouldn't happen on Apollo 11.

Joking aside, this evening brings 2 new horrors for my 800 week journey to the moon.

1) I am at the "slightly higher workload" part of LM boot + sep prep and have a few issues and questions if you would be so kind.
a) the checklist on LM and CSM around hour 97 seem to get out of sync between each other, especially when some of the yellow text is saying install hardware in CSM etc before the hatches are closed on the LM checklist.

Maybe the Checklist MFD has an error there. But in any case, use the real Apollo 11 Flight Plan to see which steps should be done at what time in CSM and LM.

b) There's so much going on with pads coming in for either ships and swapping back and forth, a couple of senteces, of what's important, from a context point of view, for this section of boot lm, take settings over, optics stuff, close off and detach. My problem is the yellow text in a lot of cases just doesnt have enough context. i.e. clock syncing i can do via my eye but then i discover a special option in PaMFD that does something with hitting enter in both crafts.

It's a lot to learn at once. You will see that it gets easier each time you go through the LM activation. In doubt go back to an earlier scenario and try again. Just save quite often. That PAMFD procedure is a nice way to do the clock sync. You just have to have V06 N65 open in both CSM and LM. Then the button in the PAMFD can cause an ENTR press in the DSKYs in both CSM and LM, at the same time. You can then use the difference to do a LGC clock increment with V55, just have to do the math (difference between the clocks) by hand.

c) When told to don suit but not helmet or gloves should this just be left as "in cabin" in the ecs.

Good question. There isn't really a correct solution, "in suit" is the crew in the suit loop (using O2 and producing CO2 and heat) and "in cabin" all of this happens in the cabin.

d) There's a leak captain ........... all was going well until hour 97. Just after my DAP Pad comes in for the CSM I switch back over to the LM and the next list I think after the computer gets setup then the CSM O2 usage to register HIGH and alarm . This doesnt stop until I close the doors much earlier that the LM checklist shows them closing. This is where I also noticed the LM and CSM checklists seem out of sync with closing doors and installing hardware etc. I also seem to be losing H2 pressure. I will attach a .scn file if you just let it run on in the CSM the leak starts. I've followed the steps for moving 2 crew to LM and they are "in cabin". Until now, the hatch between the 2 has been solid no leaks since getting to full pressure. Time acceleration will also show the depletion of the H2 pressure . I noticed it was down a lot earlier. does it just need stirred or tapped with a light cigar ?

Scenario doesn't look like it has a leak. It just happens, when you have the hatch closed, that due to temperature differences and that sort of thing you get a pressure difference between CSM and LM. And then when the hatch is opened the CSM ECS is the first one to try and make up the difference. If it doesn't persist then it should be ok. H2 pressure can be increased with the fans. It's completely fine to just let the H2 (and O2) fans in Auto all the time.

One thing I would suggest in your scenario, the temperature is quite high, especially the cabin. Turn down all the lights (flood, integral etc.) as much as possible and put the crew in the suits. The rotational switches for the lights can be one step above dim and it will work normally. We still haven't perfected the LM ECS and it occasionally has a temperature issue.

e) The CSM gimbal numbers are different from the DAP CSM numbers i get in the pad.

Not sure what you mean. The DAP PAD numbers are different to what? V48?

 

[sw34669]

brilliant thanks Indy
I had a micro save i went back to - still not sure i've got the clocks dead on but the mission timer on both seems exact

dap wise what i'm referring to is the pitch and yaw adjustment numbers. Do I take these over from the CSM DAP or do I take the numbers from the PAD

i.e. my CSM DAP
+00083
-00036

DAP PAD from MCC
+00088
-00039

What is the single source of truth and what adjusts these as time goes on (P52's ?) Excuse my ignorance

 

[indy91]

So the first set of numbers is what it displays you when do a V48? I think those numbers are what the DAP was using at cutoff of the previous SPS maneuver. Which should be roughly correct, but the PAD will have the exact numbers.

 

[sw34669]

i also get an op err and seem to have issues entering the gimbal angles.

I used the PAMFD to generate the gimbal angles but it seems to have issues taking the 3 of them

 

[indy91]

Looking at those angles you aren't at the fine align step yet. First you do V41 N20E, the coarse alignment. What you enter there is the absolute LM IMU attitude, that is the numbers just above, "LM O/I/M". Then later you do a V42 IMU fine alignment with an increment for the attitude. And those angles will be nearly all zero. Remember to recalculate the V42 angles after you did the coarse alignment.

 

[sw34669]

there's a p37e00e missing from the checklist before the v41 N20E
also the PaMFD info the checklist has you generate makes you think it's those 3 numbers that need inputting
i think there needs to be a difference made to the gimbal angles maybe on the right under TEPHEM you have a title saying current gimbal angles and also add V41.

 

[sw34669]

we got there at the same time if you could slightly change the PaMFD LGC screen it will be very clear about the V41 and V42.

 

[sw34669]

i've got the 'naughts in their suits in the LM and turned all the lights down then off
Temp=nailed high 100+

I also still have a leak/pressure issue between the 2 ships. I eft them with the CSM lock closed and sealed for 20 mins and on checking, the LM is now 1.5 PSI under the CSM and I cant get the airlock open. Checking the tunnel LM Dp setting it confirms 1.5psi pess in the LM. The pressure in the LM shows it should be the same as the CSM. I'm going to open the airlock valve and let them equalize and see if the leak runs on and at least becomes stable.

Is there an O2 qty gauge in the LM? I have just checked the LM and cabin pressure has dropped to 3 psi @ 97:30 (entering gimbal values into the comp)

 

[sw34669]

lm reg a was set to egress not sure if a checklist left it there thats where the leak was
When the LM is going through an automated checklist is it ok to switch to the CM, will the LM keep running the list and flipping switches
It's this part of the checklist that seems to open REG A to EGRESS
I am assuming that "Connect CDR Suit hoses" there's nothing to do in NASSP ?

10 mins later i get the alarm in the CSM

 

[indy91]

Those regulators won't cause a leak to the outside world, just suit loop possibly mixing with cabin atmosphere if it is NOT in egress. Can you post another scenario? In the last one I really couldn't see anything wrong.

If you have the Checklist MFD configured in the automatic mode, so that it can on its own flip switches, then yes, the checklist can go on e.g. in the CSM if you are in the LM.

 

[sw34669]

Thanks Indy. The scenario I posted above, if you close the hatch, on the CSM side and then jump into the LM the cabin pressure there drops to 2 or 3 PSI so it looks like it was being lost. The problem i found with the checklists in NASSP is that setting to egress for the suit I could only find in the actual A11 checklist when they were going for EVA and when the LM is being shut down to blow moisture out. The NASSP checklist does eventually set them to cabin.

Also, the NASSP checklist seems to be missing turning the cabin fan breaker on.

Last night, i managed to get through, althoiugh a bit pate for the small RCS P30 burn, the sep of LM and CSM. It's really easy to get out of sync of pads as they come in for each craft. How can you tell if a state vector update is for the LM vs the CSM. There's so much to do in that section I lost a PAD as another came in and I couldn't see the prev one on the screen as it got switched out after a few mins.

Lastly, what are the AGC values 514R 515R and 516R

 

[indy91]

Thanks Indy. The scenario I posted above, if you close the hatch, on the CSM side and then jump into the LM the cabin pressure there drops to 2 or 3 PSI so it looks like it was being lost. The problem i found with the checklists in NASSP is that setting to egress for the suit I could only find in the actual A11 checklist when they were going for EVA and when the LM is being shut down to blow moisture out. The NASSP checklist does eventually set them to cabin.

Not happening for me in your scenario. The only thing I can think of is the LM overhead hatch being open, CSM hatch being closed and on the CSM side the tunnel vent valve set to vent. That would of course vent the tunnel and also the LM.

Also, the NASSP checklist seems to be missing turning the cabin fan breaker on.

I don't think it was often used during the actual missions, but I could be wrong.

Last night, i managed to get through, althoiugh a bit pate for the small RCS P30 burn, the sep of LM and CSM. It's really easy to get out of sync of pads as they come in for each craft. How can you tell if a state vector update is for the LM vs the CSM.

The message from the MCC is either "CSM: Ready for uplink?" or "LM: Ready for uplink?".

There's so much to do in that section I lost a PAD as another came in and I couldn't see the prev one on the screen as it got switched out after a few mins.

When it comes up, quickly write them down. There is only so much time the MCC can be allowed to wait for the next PAD to keep with the timeline.

Lastly, what are the AGC values 514R 515R and 516R

That's for the AGS, not the AGC. Those addresses are a vector that basically defines the yaw angle you will be getting during lunar ascent. Here the full AGS manual, just search for "514" in there to find out more: https://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Pultorak_files/FP6_OperatingManual.pdf Although it's probably best at first to kind of ignore the AGS and focus on learning the PGNS.

 

[sw34669]

also i appear to have no o2