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Interesting. How does that work, in practice?

Are you asking "how do the logistics of that work?", or "how well does that work?". The phrasing of that is a bit ambiguous.

In the first case, I wouldn't be able to say how Jedidia's organization does it.

In the second, it works well enough that my parent's income has been entirely from donations for over thirty years, and they managed to raise two kids without trouble.
 
Hm. Okay, what about other audiences than Reddit?
Hackaday, for example (link in question is a hardware project)?
Or is it a general attitude across the social media like that?
I've got no idea on this one. I assume all social media is superficial to some degree, but smaller communities aren't as bad. O-F is a relatively small community for instance, and everybody there is a nerd. :P
 
One of my friends at work is a frequent reddit visitor, and observing his browsing habits I have decided that reddit is all about instant gratification. Any text more than a few words long is quickly ignored. Basically he browses it when he's bored and wants a quick laugh. Memes are great for that. And the few times I browsed it I find myself doing the same thing.

It's like I'm just smart enough to know I'm getting stupid, and not motivated enough to stop from sinking into the hole of stupidity.
 
Andy hit the nail on the head. Because of that, I refuse to be a stereotypical reddit-browsing connoisseur of :censored: and decided to unsubscribe from r/pics, r/gaming, r/videos, and r/firstworldanarchists. The cleansing is complete, and now most of what I get are things to read. Take that, stereotypes.

Good and popular subreddits do exist.
 
When I want to do some intellectual browsing, I visit 3quarksdaily.

It's way more left-leaning then I am, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the interesting culture and science posts, and the comments are generally intelligent.
 
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After a full day of work, I finished and my data is safe. I will relate my experience, if someone happens a similar error.


Two days ago I tried installing CERN VM on VitualBox in Windows.
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But VB created (mysteriously) a partition on the hard drive without consultation and produced the following errors:

- The Windows boot partition is overwritten.
- Were "erased" the label of the partition where I installed Ubuntu (sda5), removed the "sda" identification, so the partition does not exist, even though I had all my data, and a risk of delete (because the PC recognized it as free space). And also "erased" the partition table.
:suicide:
- Overwrite the boot of Windows and my PC not recognize Ubuntu's boot system folder or Windows MBR (no MBR and GRUB).

This is what I did:
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- Panicking, I read on the internet that was very difficult to recover data after this and it was best format everything and lost forever my dear W7 Home Premium and my dearest Ubuntu with KDE, and worse, lose my Orbiter installation.
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As the internet was very little information on the subject, I had to devise a logical plan
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to try (with the lowest number of attempts to avoid overwriting) rescue my data.


After many hours of thinking and searching the internet I did the following:

With a live USB of Ubuntu I had, I used Gparted to delete the partition that was created me CERN VM, and the remaining space, and I added to the Windows boot partition.

I inserted the Windows recovery disk and follow the steps to activate the partition that was deactivated and repaired the boot system and MBR, and I would at least start Windows.

I installed TestDisk in Ubuntu LiveUSB to repair the partition table, in other words define that OS_7 was the bootable primary partition, Recovery was another primary partition and Ubuntu and SWAP were logical partitions. Fortunately the program was showing me the correct order of the partitions and I recovered the missing partition Ubuntu / sda5.

Finally installed Boot Repair in Ubuntu LiveUSB and I repaired and restored GRUB and Windows.
 
Interesting. How does that work, in practice?

That depends strongly on two factors: The first is the neccessary ammount of money you need, the second is the time and regularity you need it at. Usually you need a small ammount of money very regularly for a long time (your salary), and every now and then a big ammount of money in a relatively short timeframe (project specific donations). Getting large ammounts of money regularly over an extended period means chopping it up into many small ammounts of money, a feat which only very big and renowned organisations can achieve.
The problem actually relates to your next question:


Advertisement is an art of legally annoying people, you'd expect them to click, take a look, and leave. And so, make metrics like audience engagement and so on.

A link in a topic-specific place, on the other hand, is something people are expected to follow only if they are interested. And so it makes sense to think about it in terms of regular web browsing.

These two seem to be conceptually different, non-intersecting things.
What is the line of thinking that bridges them?

The line of thinking that bridges them is that there is no difference. The distinction between "annoying people" and "providing interesting information" does not exist. Instead, another distinction is made:
Personal and Non-personal.
"Personal" is a bit hard to define: Generally the goal of personal advertisment is to keep people invested in something, giving them a stake in what you're doing. Most of the time, this is kicked of by non-personal advertisment, in the hope enough peole will take a closer interest and invest (time, or money, or just enough interest so they might react to any future advertisment).
Kickstarter Campaigns are a prime example of this. First you need to make advertisment to actually generate awareness of the campaign. But the campaign itself is a method of advertisment for the final product, not just a platform to gather investments. You do not just want people to give you the money. You want them to spread the word, or occasionally to help you with other things. If possible, you want them to give money again later. This engagment of the "customer" is done by personal advertisment. That includes newsletters, updates, the occasional favor (come visit us in our Studio!) and certain bonuses.

This is pretty much identical to what you do when you build up a supporter base that you expect to support you long-term. You have to give them a stake in what you're doing. This stake can be illusionary or very real.
But as I said before, the response rate even in this case rarely exceeds 10%. That is, only about 10% of the people that signed up to be part of the project, and in many cases already gave money, will actually follow what you're doing any further.

Now, seeing that even the attention span of people interested enough to spend money on a thing usually does not last much longer than a month, you can imagine what that means for people casually browsing the Web. You can also take into account that you and I are not typical browsers. Many, many people do with the Web what they used to do with TV: They zap. Topical advertisment is still more efficient than just throwing your adds out there, but it is on a strictly unpersonal level. Unpersonal means there is no bias that might incline somebody to take the effort of reading something if he is not immediately engaged.

I have not only supported my Family by donations, I've during that time also held workshos for young Bands. Appart from obvious topics such as playing, tuning and live sound production this also involved a Segment on how to market your Band, and in that context how to raise your chances to get a Gig at a club. What we told them was roughly this: If you send your demo to an agent, and he looks at your Promo-package and doesn't like what he sees (this is music we're talking about), he'll never even listen to the Demo. If you pass that Hurdle, you better have one hell of a catchy track at the start of the Demo, because if he doesn't get engaged in the first 10 seconds, he won't listen any further. If you manage to get him, he will listen to maybe thirty seconds of that track, then either feel bored and forgett about it, or listen to a few seconds of the second track, and then decide wether to persue the matter any further.

Ironically, Booking agents are more tolerant than regular people. They get paid to do this, after all. Regular people dropping in on your Bands Website will go through a similar pattern, but with an even shorter attention span.

And this concept pretty much holds up for any kind of Website. Any Website is a marketing tool, just as any storefront in a town is a marketing tool. Any Link klicked to any Website by any person that does not yet know about what it is exactly about is non-personal advertisment in action. People's time is limited, and even if they have a slight curiosity and want to know more, they will decide very quickly that they know enough if you don't manage to really grab their attention... Usually and unfortunately not with the quality of the product, but with the quality of its presentation.

I hate it, and it makes me cynical at times, but this is the way humanity works.

Point in case: If you read completely through this entire wall of text, you've already proven that you're not a typical browser. It's way too long, and if my goal would actually have been for as many people as possible to read it, I'd have to distill this down to maybe five to ten sentences max...
 
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Are you asking "how do the logistics of that work?", or "how well does that work?". The phrasing of that is a bit ambiguous.
...
it works well enough that my parent's income has been entirely from donations for over thirty years
your salary
More of "in what kind of situations is it practical?".
In general, it feels like something absolutely unstable, and/or a trickle.

OF itself is one such case - it only needs $60 or so a month, and quite often it takes weeks for the donations to reach the mark, judging by the donation bar.

Closest think that works of which i'm aware is video bloggers, LPers and similar video/podcast content creators. But that is monetization (YouTube), advertisement and paid subscription (Patreon), not straight out donations.

---------- Post added at 15:10 ---------- Previous post was at 14:13 ----------

If you send your demo to an agent, and he looks at your Promo-package and doesn't like what he sees (this is music we're talking about), he'll never even listen to the Demo. If you pass that Hurdle, you better have one hell of a catchy track at the start of the Demo, because if he doesn't get engaged in the first 10 seconds, he won't listen any further.
In a job of picking something good out of a torrent of submissions in limited time, that attitude would make sense.
Literally browsing, looking for something to pattern-match with your interests.

It's strange for the same attitude to be used by people just browsing unconstrained - not stopping and investigating the pattern-match closer.
A bad habit, perhaps?

Point in case: If you read completely through this entire wall of text, you've already proven that you're not a typical browser. It's way too long
And that is the peculiar thing.
I grew up with the notion of the Internet being a data storage system.
So, it's only natural to go through the details of whatever interesting thing you found.

Sure, if the details consist of fox pictures, then it would take as long as seeing the pictures. But if it's a DIY laptop, then no way i'm not downloading the whole site and seeing what other stuff the author made.

To think of it in terms of marketing and advertisement is... alien.

Anyway, thanks for explaining the crowd science. :tiphat:

I hate it, and it makes me cynical at times, but this is the way humanity works.
Hm, have you tried being cynical about cynicism itself? :)
Unless it helps fix something or use something, it's pointless.

---------- Post added at 15:16 ---------- Previous post was at 15:10 ----------

I've got no idea on this one. I assume all social media is superficial to some degree, but smaller communities aren't as bad.
Speak of the devil.
http://hackaday.com/2014/12/22/a-year-long-time-lapse-camera/

Let's see what sort of patterns this will produce.
 
More of "in what kind of situations is it practical?".
In general, it feels like something absolutely unstable, and/or a trickle.

The stability depends a lot on the supporter base, and how well you achieve to bond with them. It also depends on what country they're living in.

Switzerland is a rather good place for a supporter base. People usually have some money to spare, and are often very willing to support a "good cause" with it because they feel that their lives are too busy to do some stuff by themselves, although they might like to. Note, by far not every Swiss is like that, but people like that seem to be more common than in other countries, I guess mostly because Switzerland is filthy rich overall.
So there's one factor of stability. Another factor is the currency the donations are made in. I have seen a significant payraise over the last 5 years, not because people donated more (we weren't trying to expand our base, since we had enough, and too much money can be a pain in the ass when working with donations), but simply because the Swiss Frank held stable while the euro was steadily dropping.

But in the end, the most important thing is how much people believe in you and in what you do. As long as you can keep their trust, you keep their funding, if their own economy doesn't screw them over.

In the whole, I expierienced it as a very stable thing, more stable than the salaries of some of my friends. But we had a very small supporter base with a very close connection (some 130 people overall, not all of which were donating, but all of which who we could rely on to chip in if things went south for some reason.

The dynamics are a bit similar to a fan base, I guess, and that brings with it some very unique dangers for your personality, and you might feel a bit more responsibility than if you're just spending "the organisation's money", but if you manage to form a personal bond between yourself and the donors and they trust you, it can be a very stable arrangement.


OF itself is one such case - it only needs $60 or so a month, and quite often it takes weeks for the donations to reach the mark, judging by the donation bar.

Actually, from what I see, OF has together at least 70% of the neccessary funds during the first week of the month, a good deal of that being money left over from the previous month. Since most people will donate at the end of the month, when they get their salaries, OF seems very stable, and there has once been discussion what to do with excess donations... As I mentioned, that can at times be almost as much of an annoyance like having too little.

Closest think that works of which i'm aware is video bloggers, LPers and similar video/podcast content creators.

It's a bit similar, but can be quite different in execution. In this case, you are not relying on your base for the money directly. All you have to worry about is to keep them happy enough to keep watching, and someone else will pay you. The dynamics if people are paying you directly are a bit different, but it can work in this context too. The most famous example I can think of is dwarf fortress.

paid subscription (Patreon)

Patreon is not paid subscription. Paid subscription is paying to get access to features that are otherwise unaccessible. Support via Patreon is more like paying so everybody can have access to something, because you enjoy it so much or because you think it's important. It's basically the same I did for the last 10 years, except what I did was not directly related to art.

I grew up with the notion of the Internet being a data storage system.
So, it's only natural to go through the details of whatever interesting thing you found.

First, people have very varying degrees of "being interested", and I don't mean that they're just interested in different things. People have a limited ammount of interest to spend, and that ammount is not the same for every one. That's basically what the term "attention span" means.

Second, I got to know the internet (only had internet since I was like 17, so growing up isn't the right term) primarily as a communications platform. But the truth is, that the internet is whole lot of things. It is without a doubt the vastest data storage ever created, it is also the most used communications platform, it is the worlds largest distribution platform for everything, and by now about the most used entertainment platform too. People do not always browse it with the same mindset. And usually, when they are looking at pages your employer doesn't pay you to look at, they are either communicating or looking for entertainment.
For people like you and me, learning new cool stuff about things that interest us is entertainment. For a large junk of the population, however, this does not apply, or only in special circumstances (I have taken a lot more to brainless, superficial browsing since I have kids, for example, because a) I'm often too tired to concentrate, or B) I'm not able to concentrate because somebody's screaming my ears off...).

Hm, have you tried being cynical about cynicism itself?
Unless it helps fix something or use something, it's pointless.

I'm afraid I'm rather good at "pointless" when it comes to general pesimism and outlook on life...
 
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aRj5TaU.jpg


"Welcome aboard the flight today, I'm Captain Lucifer and sitting next to me is First Officer Blur."
 
Right now I'm testing the beta of Ubuntu Orbiter. The first results were an absolutely white planet.

Hoth!

Which makes me wonder: How come in Star Wars and other sci fi movies, a planet can't have snow and oceans and desert and forest, but instead must be of only one type of terrain and climate.

Does Endor have a polar ice cap? Does Tatooine have a fertile region? What do tauntauns do on Hoth when they don't have a nice warm Rebel base to warm up in? If Vulcan is uniformly a red Mars-look-alike, do Vulcans know how to swim?
 
Continuing the unsolicited crowdscience research reports.
I'm surprised by Hackaday results.

The amount of traffic generated by the two is about equal.
Reddit people visited pretty much only the page linked, while about 30% of hackaday people visited other pages and the video.

However, on Reddit there were 16 comments in the thread, all on topic.

On Hackaday there were 9, 2 of which were on topic, and the rest were discussion on use of profanity. Oh, and there were 2 comments, on the site and on Youtube, asking what music was in that video.

Not what i expected.
Then again, i'm not sure which is worse.

One thing seems likely - Unstung's "social media is superficial to some degree" appear to be correct, to some degree.
I got, in total, about as much feedback as when i posted the thing on a community-type electronics forum, but there were about a 1000 times as much traffic.
A very dilute torrent.

Let's wait and see what would happen in the long term...

Another interesting thing i found is something called RSS - many people were viewing from mobile apps that read a concentrated and metadata-infused stream from Hackaday, containing just the posts themselves without all the rest of the site.
Which is absurdly useful - I'm surprised it isn't widely used yet.
 
:woohoo:

After being stuck with a desktop that would at most run Orbiter at ~40fps when staring at space, and ~15fps looking at the default ISS, I've now got my hands on a laptop that gets ~50fps most of the time and with my stress test utilizing Thorton's ISS, it stayed at ~30fps. Every other computer I've had thus far would be >1fps. I might still be ages behind the state of the art, but it's still a great feeling get to this point.
 
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"Welcome aboard the flight today, I'm Captain Lucifer and sitting next to me is First Officer Blur."

:lol: Clearly a bogus crew. Airbrushed on ties. Or maybe its a new thing for low cost airlines...

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Funny visitor came into Quito airport a few days ago. An-12. I did not recognize the registration so I looked it up. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Air_Alliance"]Turns out to be Ukraine Air Alliance[/ame]. UR-CGW. Moments after this snap was taken, it had an engine start failure and was towed to a parking spot on the platform, where it has been ever since. Another one arrived yesterday, presumably bringing spares for this one. Wonder why it was here in the first place?
 
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