Orbiter Shipyard Project: Gathering ideas

[Star explorer]

ths would be great cuz i might be able to finnally make addons.

i also vullenteer to beta test

 

[Sherrif of Nottingham]

This is a good thing! Think of all the people who've been dreaming up addons, but don't know how to code one, that can now make the new wave of addons.

But... this may be not so great. Think of the people who are going to create an addon just because they can... five minute addons. Or in the great words of my web mastering teacher, "Its called programming, in programming you use a code... you use a code to keep uneducated people from making a web page."

Anyway, on spacecraft3 note... a converter to create a DLL for spacecraft3 ini files. Even more ways to make spacecraft3 obsolete. Of course this would allow people who like making spacecraft3 ships not lose out on their own .dll.

And perhaps a good idea for the beta would be to close it to allow only people who know how to create an addon already... yes, that means I'm no beta tester. Oops, sorry explorer... I wasn't trying to bean you in particular.

 

[Star explorer]

thanks alot :chair: :withstupid:

 

[Sherrif of Nottingham]

The sole purpose for saying that is because if a beta tester uses the program he can say if something is not as intuitive as it could be, or that it codes it the wrong way.

It was just my opinion, and that also excludes me. Either way, I sort of rethought it, their should be people from both sides. For the above reason and because you need people who may not know how some of the variables are measured... I.E. the 8 meters thing.

 

[Linguofreak]

That's it exactly - how do i use it? No key combination i tried works, and there is no manual to fall back to.
Also, the joystick calibration is off...

I think it's on one of the menus. Hover your mouse around the top of the screen and you should get the menu bar.

Unfortunately, I can't check the program directly myself because it hasn't worked on this machine since we installed Win2K, and the machine that it might have worked on suffered a fatal motherboard failure a few months ago.

 

[tl8]

I haven't read all of the thread yet, but I always liked Kulch's numerical inputs

 

[wehaveaproblem]

Awesome and ambitious app Artlav, kudos for embarking on this. I don't think I have anything to add that hasn't been said and there are certainly more qualified coders here to help you crunch the numbers. What you have so far is looking very intuitive and the feature list seems more than adequate for purpose.

But just to offer one small suggestion, I think red text on grey looks horrible.

keep up the great work, I'll def keep one eye on this and help if I can.

BTW What are bells and whistles? Has that something to do with sound?

It's a phrase, it essentially means 'fancy extras'. Those little things that make is pretty and more in depth, but aren't essential to it's operation...

 

[Dig Gil]

I haven't read all of the thread yet, but I always liked Kulch's numerical inputs

Yes, that's fancy.

Sounds like this will become a great program.
BTW What are bells and whistles? Has that something to do with sound?

It's a phrase, it essentially means 'fancy extras'. Those little things that make is pretty and more in depth, but aren't essential to it's operation...

I thought it would really add bells and whistles to the spacecraft (like the button near passengers seat bell button on DGIV).:lol:

 

[Talon1]

This is the interface I was thinking of:

Oh well, Artlav's interface is good too:speakcool:

 

[Artlav]

One thing i wanted to consider is, will the vessels made by the generator work on the different systems.

Here is a sample of a vessel made by the generator:
http://orbides.1gb.ru/orbf/osh_dll_tst-081118.zip
Nothing fancy, just a default test.
It should have a mesh, full set of thrusters and exhausts (hanging from mid-vacuum), as well as two animations - G and J keys. The states of the animations should be saveable in the scenario, vessels should act independent.

Tests of whether it runs on your system or not are welcome, just want to make sure i'm not on a futile endeavor.

It should be pretty easy. Use the same coding methods you already use for 02 consumption...

What i meant by consumables is the O2/CO2 systems, heat and cold, pressure, etc.

1. Can you rotate the preview?
2. Remember to add the option to choose if it's needed a pilot/comander for the ship to work.
3. The size parameter should be in meters (eg.: "8 meters" rather "8")
4. But one more last thing for now: may I be one of the betatesters?

1. Yes.
2. Will be.
3. That was just a scratch. Will be.
4. Ok.

But... this may be not so great. Think of the people who are going to create an addon just because they can... five minute addons.

Knowledge takes time. If someone try to brute-force that programming code heads-on, he might just get frustrated before anything is done. So, making an easy add-on creator will act like another smaller step between the large ones... Kind of... Damn philosophy.

Anyway, on spacecraft3 note... a converter to create a DLL for spacecraft3 ini files. Even more ways to make spacecraft3 obsolete. Of course this would allow people who like making spacecraft3 ships not lose out on their own .dll.

Sounds like an idea. Is SC3 DLL being developed now, or is it indeed abandoned?
If so, it might be worth a shot, otherwise it will be a little rude.

And perhaps a good idea for the beta would be to close it to allow only people who know how to create an addon already... yes, that means I'm no beta tester.

Makes little sense - it will just shut off a big part of the intended auditorium from the testing.

I think it's on one of the menus. Hover your mouse around the top of the screen and you should get the menu bar.

Oh, yes, the mouse. Thank you, now it works properly. That's some shooting sim.
The editor is a bit disappointing - you have to pretty much type the values in on the locations, among the other things.

I haven't read all of the thread yet, but I always liked Kulch's numerical inputs

Like in universal cargo deck?
Doable.

But just to offer one small suggestion, I think red text on grey looks horrible.

It might as well be.
Any suggestions for a better color scheme?
Current set:

 

[astrosammy]

Engines work good for me, only when I use forward/backward translation RCS (Numpad 6 and Numpad 9) I don't see exthausts. Animations work good.

 

[wehaveaproblem]

I love the visual style of the layout btw, I just find red on grey has a strange blur about it. Personally I would be brave and ditch grey altogether, but I can also see it's attraction... so, instead of red I would consider an almost-white grey, white or even black or maybe even a light blue.

little test/example for you to discard at your leasure:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/needtoquit/testingcolours.jpg

 

[eveningsky339]

What i meant by consumables is the O2/CO2 systems, heat and cold, pressure, etc.

Ah, I see. I thought you were referring to food/water. I have no expertise in this area, but perhaps you could ask for code snippets of a vessel that does, ie the XR's or even the DGIV. It would be understandable if the authors were reluctant to give it, though. Maybe a confidentiality agreement should be in order sould you decide to do this.

But... this may be not so great. Think of the people who are going to create an addon just because they can... five minute addons. Or in the great words of my web mastering teacher, "Its called programming, in programming you use a code... you use a code to keep uneducated people from making a web page."

This is actually something which concerns me.

 

[tl8]

Read the thread now, I think we have forgotten some CORE parts of the vessel.

Landing Gear and Parameters, Aero[Control]Surfaces, Docking ports, Attachment points, Attachment point handling and Payloads

Also getting into the hypothetical, maybe OSB could analyse the mesh for some parameters.

I would say the 2D panels and VCs should be in a later realise as I think they are small fry ATM.

Also a screenshot taker, and a black/white screen as a background for the display.

I must say though, this is a big thing, it will change Orbiter. Really!

I am worried about maintenance of the program. It would be a shame to not be able to add features later on (Years) like what SC3 is now.

 

[Dig Gil]

This is the interface I was thinking of:

That GUI looks little too... what's the word... busy? full? unuserfriendly?
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One thing i wanted to consider is, will the vessels made by the generator work on the different systems.

Test results on Windows Vista Home Edition (with administrator privilege):
-Linear RCS = OK (except the forward/backward thrust which have no exhaust)

-Rotational RCS = OK

-Animation (both G and J) = OK with combination of animations, reversed and straight forward*comment: it looks like a clock. I could use that to make a clock:hmm:*

-Fuel/Main engine = OK , that ship carries a lot of fuel for the ISP!:thumbsup:

It's all the testing for now. Total 9 out of 10 points (10 if the displacement of the RCS exhaust is not an error)
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I love the visual style of the layout btw, I just find red on grey has a strange blur about it. Personally I would be brave and ditch grey altogether, but I can also see it's attraction... so, instead of red I would consider an almost-white grey, white or even black or maybe even a light blue.

little test/example for you to discard at your leasure:
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...ingcolours.jpg

remember that the floating toolbars are transparent, so it could be hard to see what's written on some backgrounds or meshes' textures/colours. A good change would be using a different toolbar colour to match the red (or change both). I'll make some study over design for your Shipyard.
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1-Landing Gear and Parameters, Aero[Control]Surfaces, Docking ports, Attachment points, Attachment point handling and Payloads

2-Also getting into the hypothetical, maybe OSB could analyse the mesh for some parameters.

3-Also a screenshot taker (...).

4-I must say though, this is a big thing, it will change Orbiter. Really!

5-I am worried about maintenance of the program. It would be a shame to not be able to add features later on (Years) like what SC3 is now.

1-Artlav said at the he was working around that.
2-That would be useful to calculate automatically stuff like cross section, touch down points and other aerodynamics.
3-There's a key on your keyboard called "Prt Sc" or Print Screen which does that.
4-The one who says that's not true is not paying attention (or we are all wrong).
5-That's very important!!!

 

[tl8]

Just making sure

Wouldn't want to forget anything

 

[Mister Kite]

This is actually something which concerns me.

That's why I'm not so enthusiastic about prefab components.
What's the creativity in that?
I think people will get bored with it pretty quick as all ships will become looking very uniform.
Without it, you still have to build a ship (which can be a real pain if you wanna do it good ) and understand how it should behave.

Test with XP professional same as Dig Gil.

 

[Talon1]

I don't understand, is this going to make a DLL,a config file, or both?

 

[tblaxland]

I don't understand, is this going to make a DLL,a config file, or both?

Both. All vessels in Orbiter need a config file and may, or may not, have a DLL.

 

[Star explorer]

when will the beta come out i'm really iching to try it