Discussion Developing my first satellite

[Scruce]

Okay, forget the thrusters. This satellite will have no attitude control system at all.

Hey, don't give up in the face of a long post. Just don't go into too much technical detail with the satellite, it will need to have attitude thrusters if some of the experiments aboard include photographic reconnaissance or topography.

I assume it has more purpose than Sputnik I, right?

 

[garyw]

What Urwumpe is talking about is initative. If you don't have that you'll be waiting for everyone else to tell you want to do and thats boring.

Forget the technical details of the satellite just do the basics, add a few thrusters and test, if it seems overpowered then take it down a notch or two.

Make version 2 more technically accurate.

Job done.

 

[Pipcard]

If you wait until somebody teaches you everything you need to know for a task, you will NEVER get anything done. I can't do the thinking for you, nobody here can. I can point you to teaching material, but you would have to learn it.

And forget school. My teachers had been still busy teaching me BASIC, when I wrote a program on an Atari ST, that was capable of disassembling windows executables (OK, it was written in GFA Basic back then, because I still had no C compiler for the Atari ST).

Do you want to design your own cubesat and get it into Orbiter?
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
[ ] Maybe

I wasn't talking about learning programming; I was talking about learning physics.

[✓] Yes

 

[Urwumpe]

I wasn't talking about learning programming; I was talking about learning physics.

Learning is learning. Regardless if you do programming, physics or gardening.

A satellite is not done by physics alone, but also by learning basic engineering skills, since it is a project that you do. If you don't have a plan and learn the tools to follow this plan and plan your activities well, you will get lost in development hell.

 

[Pipcard]

I assume it has more purpose than Sputnik I

Now that I think about it, this satellite is (metaphorically) my Sputnik I. (because it's my first satellite)

Yeah, just forget the attitude control system.

 

[RisingFury]

I wasn't talking about learning programming; I was talking about learning physics.

It doesn't matter what you're trying to do or learn. Don't wait on others to spoon feed you for it. Go after it yourself.

Damn, you could at least open up Wikipedia and look up certain terms in this thread, like nitrogen, ideal gas law, cold gas thruster and so on.


Another point of advice. Don't release your add-on, only use it as a learning project. It's your first and seeing how you're just learning basic skills and lacking all knowledge and aren't even willing to learn it, it just won't be good.

If you're serious about making add-ons for Orbiter, start doing your research and only open an O-F thread when you get stuck and all other means fail. If you're not ready to do that, give up now and spare yourself further humiliation.

Yours truly,
RisingFury

 

[Pipcard]

Damn, you could at least open up Wikipedia and look up certain terms in this thread, like nitrogen, ideal gas law, cold gas thruster and so on.

That's what I already did.

 

[Urwumpe]

That's what I already did.

Then you must have seen ideal gas law already and know how to calculate the density of the cold gas.

 

[Pipcard]

Then you must have seen ideal gas law already and know how to calculate the density of the cold gas.

So is the "cold gas" at room temperature?

 

[Scruce]

Now that I think about it, this satellite is (metaphorically) my Sputnik I. (because it's my first satellite)

Then what I would suggest, is that you do more than one satellite and upload it in the same pack. A lot of people would think that an addon would not be very worthy if it contained only one mesh (unless it is extremely detailed). A pet project of mine is simulating the Dnepropetrovsk Sputnik (DS) program in Orbiter (my avatar is a DS-2 that I made). Now, my addon would not be very good if it only contained the DS-2, but it would be better if it covered the whole program.

So, here is a suggestion: Make your satellite in different types, for example; if your satellite was called: K-1, then you would make a K-2, but this satellite would have a change, it could have a longer Y axis mesh or maybe an extra antennae on the front. People like variety, and you would surely get more downloads from it.

Or, you could not upload it and keep it as a testbed. I have over six addons lying on my hard drive that are not worthy of Orbit Hangar Mods, so I keep them there.

 

[Urwumpe]

So is the "cold gas" at room temperature?

Guess what - no. But to help you a bit: The temperature is is variable in a satellite. Additionally, the colder the gas is, the worse is the performance, since colder gas has a lower characteristic velocity. Higher temperature gas needs bigger tanks at the same pressure, if the temperature gets too high, satellite tanks can burst (and do burst sometimes, when the satellite is out of control).

Assume the gas is at 20°C for the beginning, that isn't too far away from the truth.

EDIT: And yes. Never release your first add-on. wait until it has the quality that you would download it from somebody else. Or better, until your add-on has a purpose and scenarios to PLAY with.

 

[Pipcard]

My plan was to have satellites called "CUbical Technology/Instrumentation Experiment"s, starting with CUTIE Mk I.
I guess that I won't get that Add-on Dev tag (and that orange name I always wanted) anytime soon.
That's the real reason I wanted to develop.

I'm going to wait until I learn physics and aerospace engineering, so I have a better grasp of things.

 

[Scruce]

My plan was to have satellites called "CUbical Technology/Instrumentation Experiment", starting with CUTIE Mk I.
I guess that I won't get that Add-on Dev tag (and that orange name I always wanted) anytime soon.

I'm going to wait until I learn physics and aerospace engineering.

Now, let's not be so hasty to give up. You have a good mesh at the moment, with some antennae it will look a lot better. Give yourself a few hours to think it over, if you really can't do it, then just stop, but I think you can do it. Just know where you are and what you need to do. Think out each problem carefully, find the solution and then move on to the next problem. Google and Astronautix will always be your friend! :thumbup:

Oh, the 'CUTIE Mark. I' was the best thing I heard all day, kudos to you for coming up with that name! :thumbup:

 

[garyw]

My plan was to have satellites called "CUbical Technology/Instrumentation Experiment"s, starting with CUTIE Mk I.
I guess that I won't get that Add-on Dev tag (and that orange name I always wanted) anytime soon.
That's the real reason I wanted to develop.

Then you are developing for the wrong reason. Look at my profile, I have been here years and don't have an addon dev badge. Have I developed addons? Yes.

Have I uploaded them? No.

My addons are for my enjoyment and are either modifications of existing work or so bad that certain people (woo482 and loru) have taken one look at the screenshots and said 'You know what, thats terrible' then done something much, much better.

So, no orange badge for and I don't mind. I'm not an addon dev but I do enjoy tinkering from time to time and thats the main reason to do an addon - FUN. Not be like someone else or get a badge.

Think about this - Lets say you get the orange badge then two days later O-F ceases to exist. You won't have that orange badge then will you? but will it matter? No it's just a graphic on a website!

I'm going to wait until I learn physics and aerospace engineering, so I have a better grasp of things.

You don't need those for a simple addon. I refer you to my earlier comments.

 

[Urwumpe]

I'm going to wait until I learn physics and aerospace engineering, so I have a better grasp of things.

why not start today and develop your satellite along the way? As Gary has already said, it does not need to be perfect on the first try.

Stop being so afraid, kick yourself in the butt and start. If you want to do it the perfect way, get the "NASA Systems Engineering Handbook" and we will see your satellite in 10 years. (But I still recommend the NASA handbook for learning how to manage such projects and design something to your requirements)

But why not start at making a static mesh (no animations) and just put it into a configuration file (like the Carina) to learn the basic workflow and file formats of orbiter? Then you add animations and switch to spacecraft3.dll. Next you make a primitive AOCS. Then you refine this AOCS while making your first C++ module. Then you look at how you can launch it, which rocket or spacecraft is the best for it. Maybe release it if you feel happy with the result already.

And then you make satellite 2, give it a mission, write down what you want it to do and how it should do that, and design the best satellite that can do this mission (and not one m/s more). You define design trees, collect alternative designs, compare the designs, select the best design, refine it, add realistic tanks and parts (There are some specs on the satellite manufacturer home pages), and fly it.

 

[Scruce]

To re-iterate what garyw said, don't make addons for the sake of making addons, or a small 10x50 px graphic on a website. Only make addons if you enjoy making addons.

If you can't do this, consider working in another field, or go back to making skins.

 

[Urwumpe]

Look here for the handbook, it is not really for such a small first add-on, like you want to have, but becomes very useful once you are doing bigger projects and still in the phase before software development project management can help.

http://education.ksc.nasa.gov/esmdspacegrant/Documents/NASA SP-2007-6105 Rev 1 Final 31Dec2007.pdf

 

[RisingFury]

I guess that I won't get that Add-on Dev tag (and that orange name I always wanted) anytime soon.
That's the real reason I wanted to develop.

What? You think making us feel sorry for you will earn you the orange name? If you really want to earn the orange name, you'll have to work for it. It won't be given to you.

I'm going to wait until I learn physics and aerospace engineering, so I have a better grasp of things.

Alright, I'll see your CUTIE satellite in 15 years :thumbup:

In all honesty, you should just give up. You just don't have what it takes to make add-ons, because trust me, it takes a LOT of hard work. I joined OBSP in summer of 2009. ETF had already been working on it for some time and I thought it would be really cool if it had an AI system so other planes would shoot back at you.

I joined the project with some C++ knowledge, no knowledge of autopilots, no knowledge of AI and very limited knowledge and experience of Orbiter's API. My only experience I got was about a week's worth of work on a DG type vessel, which I abandoned due to lack of time and interest on my part.

OBSP is now over 2 years old and contains more than 10 000 lines of code, but we keep pushing back the release, because it just isn't ready yet.

I'm sure many of the developers of "must have" add-ons can share similar stories. I know for a fact that Woo's early attempts sucked and he is still ashamed when you even mention the name of his early add-ons (no offense there, Woo!), but he's gone from someone that makes poor quality work, to someone with excellent add-ons. But I give credit to Woo, because even with his early work, he had dedication and patience. Woo's Mars rover is an example of his early work, yet I remember the struggle he went through to make it UMMU compatible. That's dedication and patience you just don't have.

 

[Pipcard]

I'm just gonna make testbeds just for fun and on my own time. [this section has been deleted]

 

[Woo482]

I'm pretty sure most (if not all) addon developers have learnt it in their own time, non of us are paid to develop Orbiter addons we simply do it for fun whenever we have the time to. And please don't mention the Mars rover, that really is an appallingly bad mesh :lol: