Search Ares V

Hmmm (oh s***)

Well... Let's Try with these other masses, i hope you've read the attachments previoulsy posted by me... 'cos these are the sources of these data:

5.5 Segment RSRM: These are Ok both in thtust and in empty mass. Let's add 100 tons extra of fuel, so we reduce the specific impulse of them :P

Core Stage: Empty mass: 157600 kg Fuel Mass: 1587300 kg. Remember: 16.5 tons of fuel remains in the stage at cut-off. Burn time: 330 sec.

EDS: Dry Mass: 24200 kg Fuel mass: 251900 kg . At cut-off there should be 2.4 tons of fuel inside the EDS. I don't know the thrust of J2X.

Fairing Mass: 8800 kg. Relative to the fairing: you should rotate each mesh 45° (if you use Ar81's MeshWizard, the job is less painful :P) and instead of "ANGLE=0" in the [FAIRING] section of the config file, you should write "ANGLE=45". This should solve the fairing bug. :P

AHHHHH!!! More important: Altair's Mass: ~45 tons :P
 
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Keep in mind that multistage2 don`t take into account thrust reduction because of atmospheric pressure. It causes about 5 - 10 % increase of performance. You can test that by placing your rocket on Venus and launching it - it will fly fine.
 
Sky Captain said:
Keep in mind that multistage2 don`t take into account thrust reduction because of atmospheric pressure. It causes about 5 - 10 % increase of performance. You can test that by placing your rocket on Venus and launching it - it will fly fine.
Click to expand...

If you go into the Parameters tab on the Orbiter lauch pad and turn on complex flight it does take into account atmospheric pressure and density.

---------- Post added at 10:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------
Istochnikov said:
Well, let's increase the thrust level of the SRB to 15.8 MN :P
Click to expand...

That's 158,000 Newtons right?
 
You're Ares V is the best one so far, but i cant dock to ALtair while it's still connected to the EDS....:( What needs to be changed?
 
Columbia42 said:
If you go into the Parameters tab on the Orbiter lauch pad and turn on complex flight it does take into account atmospheric pressure and density.
Click to expand...

That`s weird because I just put side by side a multistage2 rocket and default Deltaglider on Venus and rocket produced it`s default vacuum thrust while Deltaglider made zero thrust. I checked the parameters and I have complex flight enabled.
 
HMMM!!!! That's the possible reason of malfunction of Ares V... I've given Columbia42 the SEA LEVEL Thrust, not the Vacuum Thrust :P

So, the vacuum thrust for Ares 5 will be... 2169078.71334 kgf (21690787.1334 N) using 6 RS 68A engines :P
 
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Sky Captain said:
That`s weird because I just put side by side a multistage2 rocket and default Deltaglider on Venus and rocket produced it`s default vacuum thrust while Deltaglider made zero thrust. I checked the parameters and I have complex flight enabled.
Click to expand...

I guess Multistage 2 doesn't take that perameter into account.

---------- Post added at 05:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:16 AM ----------
Istochnikov said:
HMMM!!!! That's the possible reason of malfunction of Ares V... I've given Columbia42 the SEA LEVEL Thrust, not the Vacuum Thrust :P

So, the vacuum thrust for Ares 5 will be... 2169078.71334 kgf (21690787.1334 N) using 6 RS 68A engines :P
Click to expand...

I'm still using 70% of the eds's fuel to get to orbit. Post all of the latest Ares V specs and I'll see if I've got the correct ones.
 
Well... there is a unique possible variable... burn time for both stages:

For the First Stage:

Burn Time = Fuel Mass * Isp * 9.81 / Thrust

Burn Time = 1587300 kg * 415 sec * 9.81 M/s^2 / 21690787.1334 N = 297 seconds

(Recomend you preserve the original 330 sec burn time... )

For the second stage:

Burn Time = Fuel Mass * Isp * 9.81 / Thrust

Burn Time = 251900 kg * 448 sec * 9.81 m/s^2 / 1310000 N = 845 sec TOTAL
(your TOTAL burn time is of 640 sec)

I'll do the test and say you how it worked.

EDIT: Tested values are ok. "My" test version of Ares 5 reaches a 220 km * 220 km * 28.5° using only the 53% of the EDS fuel. Even with the Burn time of 297 sec of the first stage.

Here is the deffinitive (?) config file :P

Code: 
[MISC]
cog=28
FOCUS=1
GNC_DEBUG=1

[TEXTURE_LIST]
TEX_1=Exhaust_kelvin
TEX_2=Exhaust2
TEX_3=CEV-Orion\exhaust2_noalpha

[PARTICLESTREAM_1]
NAME=SRBex
TEX=Contrail2_2009
SRCSIZE=2.0
SRCRATE=5000.0
V0=100.0
SRCSPREAD=0.0
LIFETIME=0.3
GROWTHRATE=18
ATMSLOWDOWN=0.0
LTYPE=EMISSIVE
LEVELMAP=LVL_PSQRT
LMIN=0
LMAX=0
ATMSMAP=ATM_PLOG
AMIN=0
AMAX=0

[PARTICLESTREAM_2]
NAME=SRBsm
TEX=Contrail1_2009
SRCSIZE=7.3
SRCRATE=15
V0=150.0
SRCSPREAD=0.3
LIFETIME=10.0
GROWTHRATE=4
ATMSLOWDOWN=1.0
LTYPE=DIFFUSE
LEVELMAP=LVL_PSQRT
LMIN=0
LMAX=1
ATMSMAP=ATM_PLOG
AMIN=1e-4
AMAX=1

[BOOSTER_1]
N=2
MeshName="Ares & Orion/AresV_SRB"
Height=57.80
Diameter=3.71 
EmptyMass=160356
FuelMass=600000
Thrust=15800000
angle=0.
off=(8.3,0.,-3.5)
ENG_1=(0,0,-25)
BurnTime=126
ENG_TEX=CEV-Orion\exhaust2_noalpha
ENG_PSTREAM1=SRBsm
ENG_PSTREAM2=SRBex

[STAGE_1]
Height=60
Diameter=10.
EmptyMass=157600
FuelMass=1587300
Thrust=21690787 ; 6 * RS 68A engines in Vacuum mode
BurnTime=297
off=(0,0.,0)
MeshName="Ares & Orion/AresV"
ENG_1=(-2,3.8,-30)
ENG_2=(2,3.8,-30)
ENG_3=(-4,0,-30)
ENG_4=(4,0,-30)
ENG_5=(-2,-3.8,-30)
ENG_6=(2,-3.8,-30)
ENG_DIAMETER=2
ENG_TEX=Exhaust_kelvin
SPEED=(0,0,-10)
ROT_SPEED=(0,0,0

[SEPARATION_12]
SEPARATION_DELAY=400000 ;<-a little more than 4 days :P
MESHNAME="Ares & Orion/PowMod"
OFF=(0,0.,30)
HEIGHT=2.07  
DIAMETER=2.95
SPEED=(0,0,-7.5)
ROT_SPEED=(0.25,0,0)
MASS=4000 ; [COLOR=Red]<-added mass to this[/COLOR], 'cos will be the [PAYLOAD_1] when you turn the EDS in a Spacecraft3 vessel.

[STAGE_2]
Height=28
Diameter=10
EmptyMass=24200
FuelMass=251900
Thrust=1310000
BurnTime=845 ; For an ISP of 448 sec or 4394.88 Ns/Kg don't forget add 4 500 N engines for ullagin maneuvers :P
off=(0,0.,43)
MeshName="eds"
ENG_1=(0,0,-18.9)
ENG_DIAMETER=1.5
ENG_TEX=Exhaust_kelvin

[FAIRING]
N=4
MeshName="Ares & Orion/EDSFairing"
Diameter=4.4
Height=17.6
angle=45.
off=(0,4.25,68)
SPEED=(0,0,0)
MASS=8000

[PAYLOAD_1]
off=(0,0,66)
Mass=45000
Meshname="CEV-E/CEV-E-LMlaunch"
Name="Altair"
Module="CEV-E\CEV-E-LM"
SPEED=(0,0,1)
 
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Thanks a lot.
BTW: your diameters for the core and eds are 10 meters. Should I change my meshes so that they are 10 meters around instead of 12?

---------- Post added at 08:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 PM ----------

I tried the new specs and even with the 330 burntime of the core stage I'm using 50% of the eds's fuel. Are you sure about the 126 burntime of the SRBs and the 330 burntime of the core?
 
Columbia42 said:
Thanks a lot.
BTW: your diameters for the core and eds are 10 meters. Should I change my meshes so that they are 10 meters around instead of 12?
Click to expand...


No. You shouldn't change nothing. This info is for the aerodynamical model. Your meshes in fact are already 10 meters in diameter.
Columbia42 said:
I tried the new specs and even with the 330 burntime of the core stage I'm using 50% of the eds's fuel. Are you sure about the 126 burntime of the SRBs and the 330 burntime of the core?
Click to expand...

This is the nominal performance. The EDS should use more or less the 50% of its fuel for reaching LEO. There is nothing bad about it. I conducted a TLI with "my" test model and worked well.

For the "Am i sure...?" my answer is yup. I recomend you download the diapos posted by me "N" posts behind this on this thread (they're in the page 3 post 2).

For the burn time for the stages... see the same post that has the code. I made these calculations taking into consideration a basic formula that takes in account the fuel mass, the specific impulse of the engines and the thrust of them. For the first stage the burning time is 297 seconds, not 330. Mathematics don't lie. :P

And other consideration. The Shuttle SRBs burnout at an altitude of ~45 km. An enlarging (without engrossing) or the SRB doesn't vary the combustion time, due the combustion is at all the longitude of the rocket. So, the burn time shouldn't change much. For more info... again, the diapos. :P
 
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Excellent!!!

Now the only thing to adjust is the visuals :P

-Your stages (again) have a diameter of 12 meters, when the core diameter is 10.17 :P. You shoud scale back on X and Y axis all the groups of the first stage except 6 and 7 by a factor of 0.845, and all your EDS, Interstages and the Fairing. I recomend you to use Ar81's Mesh wizard. It does the job less painful :P
-The fairing looks very... i don't know how to say you it... ugly. I recommend you improve it a little. Rule of thumb: the fairing assembly (in this case, the four petals) should have the same number of sides that the stage below it. I generally when i model a rocket stage, i use a 24-sides cylinder, so my rocket fairing (when is completly assembled atop the rocket, should have 24 sides).

For the performance and other things, all is good :P
 
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I changed the meshes to have a diameter of 10.17. Could someone help me with making a better fairing mesh? I'm absolutely horrible at making meshes.

---------- Post added at 12:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 AM ----------

Also, What's the ISP of the EDS?
 
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