An Honourable Memorial

[Chipstone306]

Astronaut's diary goes on display in Jerusalem


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...rusalem_Astronaut_081003/20081003?hub=SciTech

 

[Belisarius]

Colonel Ilan Ramon should indeed be honoured, along with the other six.

But there is no excuse for mystical nonsense like the following:

"It's almost a miracle that it survived -- it's incredible," Zalmona said. There is "no rational explanation" for how it was recovered when most of the shuttle was not, he said.

Lots of other documents were recovered too. And nearly all of the Shuttle structure was recovered. This kind of superstitious flummery doesn't do the crew's memory any honour, in my opinion.

 

[Ghostrider]

Agreed, just state that it "miraculously survived" and that's enough. If I were religious, I'd be offended at the idea that God would have chosen to save the diary instead of the crew.

 

[Belisarius]

If I were religious, I'd be offended at the idea that God would have chosen to save the diary instead of the crew.

Good point. By the way, for a tribute to STS-107 Columbia, there's an excellent poem by Keith Gottschalk over at Astronautix

http://www.astronautix.com/poems/shuttle.htm

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

What's wrong with being "mystical" ? Anyway, they're obviously amazed that the document was recovered at all and have framed that amazement in the terms of their religion. I see nothing wrong with that.

May Ramon and the other Challenger Astronauts rest in peace.

 

[thomasantony]

What's wrong with being "mystical" ? Anyway, they're obviously amazed that the document was recovered at all and have framed that amazement in the terms of their religion. I see nothing wrong with that.

May Ramon and the other Challenger Astronauts rest in peace.

FYI, Ramon was on Columbia.

 

[Belisarius]

There's everything wrong with being mystical if it allows you to skim over such mundane and earthly matters as telling the truth.

Among the fragments recovered from Columbia:
1) a number of documents (I've been unable to find the exact number, even in the CAIB report, but some sources say many tens or even more than a hundred)
2) a culture of nematode worms in a steel cylinder. The worms were still alive.
3) the Hard Disc of the flight computer with 99% of the data intact.
4) many hundreds of metres of magnetic tape with the flight data
5) 38% of the Shuttle's structure
6) enough of the bodies of the crew to be identified and given a burial

Was all this something for which there is "no rational explanation"? Did God miraculously preserve the nematode worms as well as the personal diary of Col. Ramon? What is He trying to tell us by doing so?

Maybe Dr Zalmona didn't know about these other objects, but if I were involved in the recuperation of items recovered from STS-107 I'd try to find out about them before spouting off about "no rational explanation".

Beware of religious types of any persuasion making unchallenged claims about miracles. Smoke and mirrors, lad, smoke and mirrors.

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

FYI, Ramon was on Columbia.

Jeez. I was actually thinking Columbia when I wrote that. Typo really. Inexcusable though :chair:.

There's everything wrong with being mystical if it allows you to skim over such mundane and earthly matters as telling the truth.

Among the fragments recovered from Columbia:
1) a number of documents (I've been unable to find the exact number, even in the CAIB report, but some sources say many tens or even more than a hundred)
2) a culture of nematode worms in a steel cylinder. The worms were still alive.
3) the Hard Disc of the flight computer with 99% of the data intact.
4) many hundreds of metres of magnetic tape with the flight data
5) 38% of the Shuttle's structure
6) enough of the bodies of the crew to be identified and given a burial

Was all this something for which there is "no rational explanation"? Did God miraculously preserve the nematode worms as well as the personal diary of Col. Ramon? What is He trying to tell us by doing so?

Maybe Dr Zalmona didn't know about these other objects, but if I were involved in the recuperation of items recovered from STS-107 I'd try to find out about them before spouting off about "no rational explanation".

Beware of religious types of any persuasion making unchallenged claims about miracles. Smoke and mirrors, lad, smoke and mirrors.

You certainly have a point. I was just taking what he was saying in the social and cultural terms that he was talking in. It is not "rational" that the diary was eventually returned to his country the way he describes it. Blown half way across the stratosphere from a shocking accident. The article also notes the poignant prayer texts recorded in the diary to be recited back down to earth, that adds to what I think is meant as an emotional speech.

You're right no religious statment (or any statement for that matter) should be taken on blind faith, but he didn't go quite as far as to explicitly say it is a "miracle". But, again, would it be so bad if he did say that ? I think you're mistaking a cultural statement with a scientific one.

 

[Belisarius]

Agreed, I'm probably getting upset over nothing. And he did say "almost a miracle".