Question Aliens...Do you think they exist?

[Quick_Nick]

Just avoid resonance cascades and portals to Xen and we should be safe from seven-hour invasions and enslavement. But keep a shotgun handy just in case...

And as I read this thread, I get a text from someone(??) asking about my belief in aliens.

 

[n0mad23]

Sure there are. Who do you think took all our jobs and ruined the economy? :facepalm:

 

[fsci123]

Dont forget, not all of the moons and planets of their home system are colonisable. I'll admit, there is a (small) possibility that all the bodies in the system are habitable, but is is extremely unlikely.



So, you're saying the biggest evidence of life is... no life? :blink:

That's like saying I have a cat, because there is no cat in 200 miles, how does that work out? :huh:

No i said it about intellgience...

I think you've completely missed the point of what I'm trying to say. Who can say that there isn't life on Titan that lives on Methane rather than Oxygen and Water, how can you prove that life can't live on Methane?

Methane is inert and dosnt react with anything. What chemical can it react with to form a breathing gas?

 

[ky]

Personally, I don't believe in aliens. Even if they do exist, why would they want to come here? Why would they want to come to a planet that is already depleting their own natural resources? Why would they want to take over a society that is pretty much killing themselves with numerous wars and mass violence? I don't know why they would, but if I were them, I wouldn't want to.

 

[T.Neo]

Personally, I don't believe in aliens. Even if they do exist, why would they want to come here? Why would they want to come to a planet that is already depleting their own natural resources? Why would they want to take over a society that is pretty much killing themselves with numerous wars and mass violence? I don't know why they would, but if I were them, I wouldn't want to.

:facepalm:

Hey, so this ain't Paradise Planet. But do we really have to continue perpetuating discrimination against all of humanity? :dry:

 

[Codz]

Personally, I don't believe in aliens. Even if they do exist, why would they want to come here? Why would they want to come to a planet that is already depleting their own natural resources? Why would they want to take over a society that is pretty much killing themselves with numerous wars and mass violence? I don't know why they would, but if I were them, I wouldn't want to.

So if you say aliens don't exist then your basically denyingthat any of the trillions of stars/solar systems out there could harbor any life? That is an incredibly arrogant view.

 

[Tommy]

Garyw made a very good point about the economic aspect. If there is intelligent life on other planets it would likely have evolved according to the same "Darwinian" rules as life on Earth. This means that such a species would have to follow a philosophy that values a high return on investment - since being wasteful isn't exactly a good survival trait. While an alien species may have evolved beyond "currency" (or be like insects in that they are "hard wired" to act for the good of the species and share, etc) Return On Investment will still apply.

Even if they have some form of FTL travel, the distances are still an obstacle. Even at 100 times the speed of light it could take centuries to travel from one galaxy to another. So, if there are aliens, they still aren't going to come here unless it's worth the effort. This planet would have to have something they need but can't find any closer to home - or it's not worth the trip. Unless they have some form of instant travel or time control, distance is still an obstacle, and time is still an "expense".

My own opinion on the idea of "Ancient Astronauts" is that it's just a replacement for "god" based religeons. Some people seem to feel a need for some externally applied purpose. They need to believe that we are here for a reason, and that some external agency is responsible for providing that sense of purpose. As science makes the concept of supernatural beings (ie, gods) seem more and more foolish, it's natural that some people try to find a more scientifically supported "higher power". They simply aren't philosophically mature enough to stand on their own two feet and provide their own sense of purpose and "destiny". They just can't handle the concept that we exist for no real reason - it's just the way the odds worked out.

 

[T.Neo]

an alien species may have evolved beyond "currency"

I have a hard time believing "evolved beyond currency". It sounds like a part of Star Trek that is even less plausible than phasers or transporters.

You need a way to transfer "wealth". "Currency" is a good way to do that.

Granted, if scarcity is made much less of an issue, then it wouldn't matter as much... but things will always be worth something, and the requirement of a currency to trade wealth could actually end up being a useful factor to prevent things from getting out of hand.

or be like insects in that they are "hard wired" to act for the good of the species and share, etc

I really doubt "hard wired to act for the good of the species"... competing colonies of eusocial insects will fight among eachother if need be.

It is true... humans are also hard wired to act for the good of the species. Maybe that provides an insight into the "ideal eusocial alien"- and not a particularly rosy one, at least from the perspective of an alien living in that alien's world.

 

[n0mad23]

(Shifting from the sarcasm of my previous post)

It seems pretty obvious that the universe is filled with pond-scum. There probably are exotics that don't fit into any of our predictive models, and we wouldn't recognize them as life anyway.

But there's got to be a lot of biology happening out there. The physical structure of the universe is loaded with the essential elements and compounds to make it happen. These are the things that make up life here on good ol'planet Earth. It's hard to imagine that our local neighborhood is really that special, outside of what's continuing to happen on Earth.

Water, energy, long chain carbon molecules. Who could ask for anything more? What's really important is proximity to the energy source.

I'm going to be really surprised if we don't find bacteria on one of Jupiter or Saturn's moons if we actually take the time to look. Some of the places you'll find anerobic bacteria here as well as the incredible diversity of types coupled with the tenacity of life itself makes it pretty obvious.

But evolution into complex forms requires more, and our own Moon plays a huge role in this. Without it hurricanes and typhoons and tornadoes would be normal occurrences instead of the exception to the rule. Moss and lichen might do well (fungi, too) but not much else.

Do I think there are places in our galaxy brimming with the activity of a Galactic Empire (like Brin's Uplift Trilogy) or interstellar hegemonic species settlements? Nope, don't think so. Not around here out in this spiral arm anyway. Personally, I do not think physical technology is the be-all-end-all of evolution, and maybe by the time a species is ready for interstellar travel they don't need it anymore.

Hasn't anyone else wondered that once upon a time we saw the little people and goblins and now we see UFOs? We are the irrational species whose greatest hobby is playing at rationalization.

 

[T.Neo]

our own Moon plays a huge role in this. Without it hurricanes and typhoons and tornadoes would be normal occurrences instead of the exception to the rule. Moss and lichen might do well (fungi, too) but not much else.

I would be careful to base assertions on assumptions like that...

1. We don't actually know how good (or bad) Earth's particular planetological circumstances are for life. We have nothing to compare Earth to.

2. We don't know how another specific planetary history could affect the evolution of life.

3. We don't know what effects on life certain environmental factors would have and what their severity would be.

Personally, I do not think physical technology is the be-all-end-all of evolution, and maybe by the time a species is ready for interstellar travel they don't need it anymore.

Are you suggesting that more advanced civilisations, follow the path of the Krell?

 

[Scruce]

No i said it about intellgience...

So, you're now saying that the biggest evidence of intelligence is the lack of intelligence?

How did you come to that conclusion? Where did you get this information?

I would like to see some sources...

And sorry, but there is no such thing as the Brain Spawn with their anti-thought rays. :lol:

 

[Eli13]

Well, uh, to avoid getting into any arguments on aliens... :shifty:

I will revert to the original question.

Yes, this has been said before. But I will say it again.

I believe there is life out there, the universe is just to big not to. That is my belief in its roughest form. Done, I had to say it. I will lurk this thread from now on... :hide:

 

[DanM]

I don't believe that there is life out there, but I do not believe that there isn't life out there. There isn't enough evidence, so for now we're stuck with the Fermi Paradox.

However, due to the size of the universe and application of the Copernican Principle, I can't say that life on Earth is a miracle or anything unique, nor that we are here simply due to chance. Biogenesis and evolution are simply inevitable. But I still will hold my agnostic view as to whether aliens exist.

 

[Cras]

I do not thing there is life out there. And if there is some alien life out there, it is located far enough away from Earth that it might as well not exist.

 

[Codz]

I do not thing there is life out there. And if there is some alien life out there, it is located far enough away from Earth that it might as well not exist.

What about Europa or Titan? Both of those moons may have simple extraterrestrial life. How are you so sure of this?

 

[Eli13]

What about Europa or Titan? Both of those moons may have simple extraterrestrial life. How are you so sure of this?

Coming out of my campsite, why do you question everyone's belief on aliens? They are entitled to their position on this argument, just as you are. A belief does not need to be entirely sure. How are you so sure that he will answer you? Because you believe he will.

 

[Cras]

What about Europa or Titan? Both of those moons may have simple extraterrestrial life. How are you so sure of this?

I would be thrilled if some form of life was found on Mars, or Titan, or somewhere else. But if I am to say right now if there is, I would say no, there is not, nor do I think life exists elsewhere in the Universe to the point that it actually matters.

Why do I think this? An explanation could easily be a post that is pages and pages long. In short, I never went along with the science that proclaimed life as being an inevitable happening, only subject to if the right conditions exist or not. Some newer science is showing that this may be the case.

The universe seems designed in its current state to produce stars and black holes, and everything else is just bonus, that being the planets and what can be found on them. Life, as we know it, and especially mammals, are very complex things, and that our existance on this planet are the exeption to entropy rather than the inevitable consequence of Earth having liquid water on its surface.

And I am one who does not consider a divine force behind the universe to be total hocus pocus. I see Earth to be a special place, not the center of the universe in terms of gravity or physics, but it is the center of the universe in terms of known intelligent observation, which is about as powerful a thing as any in this Universe. And that is not philosphical cryptic nonsense, but there are those who believe that the Universe requires it to be observed in order for it to exist. But if God were to call me up and tell me He created life elsewhere, I would then have no choice to accept that then.

So then I would say to you, aside from the same nonsense formula consisting of nothing but arbitrary variables, why are those who believe in alien life so sure?

And of course there is the old pop culture test. Firefly>Star Wars. Star Wars has aliens. Firefly does not. I like Firefly, so thus, aliens don't exist. :thumbup:

 

[_Designer_]

you know I was a Light Side Jedi in SWG *draws lightsaber* lol

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Okay, :crystalball2: time...
My :2cents: : We're not alone; we will find some other life out there, and we will try to fight them. Don't know who wil get wned:, But I will not be around to care.
Sweet dreams from the left coast...:goodnight:

 

[cymrych]

I believe it very likely that life of some form exists elsewhere in our galaxy, albeit primarily microbial in nature. Such simple life may even be rather widespread, though I have nothing to base that on except gut-feeling and wishful thinking. I'd have to imagine that complex multi-cellular intelligent life must be several orders of magnitude even more rare, and we may in fact be the sole representative (assuming the classic definition of "intelligence" at any rate; there are lots of people who would argue a certain degree of intelligence for creature such as orca, dolphins, and even squid).

But the idea of a space-faring alien culture visiting earth? Ridiculous. Despite the popularity of authors von Daniken and Graham Hancock, and shows like Ancient Aliens, (not to mention pseudo-religions like Scientology), their "evidence" and "data" are purely speculative at best, and their methodology down-right bad science at worst. As an archaeologist with a fair amount of travel-time to sites under my belt, and considerably more library time researching sites around the world, I have NEVER seen a single blip of data which could not be attributable to simple human ingenuity. Not a darned thing; no building, painting, structure, monument, artefact, refuse midden, environmental modification, burial; nothing shows anything but a purely human genesis.

Someone a page or two back noted that once people saw fairies and little people, and today people see UFOs. I always love taking the anthropological view of modern people, and seeing that as "advanced" as we like to believe we are today, we still are subject to the same basic fears, anxieties and concerns that people have felt since the time our remote ancestors began emerging on the African continent. Utterly fascinating!

Quick not-so-relevant side note: The idea of ancient aliens being the prime motive force in the rise of civilization 10 thousand years ago or so is a relatively new one. In some ways, this "theory" can be traced back to one of my favorite authors, H.P. Lovecraft, and his stories of an ancient race of interstellar demon-esque beings who enslaved early humans. And interestingly, to reference an even earlier post in this thread, the leader of this ancient alien race DID have tentacles growing out of his head! Kinda like an over-grown moustache, not out of the top of the head however.