How do Solid Fuel Upperstages work?

Zatnikitelman

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I know how a basic solid fuel rocket works, but not how when combined with an upperstage, it can precisely position a satellite in its intended orbit. A solid fueled engine can't be shut down right? Well then, how can GEO satellites be boosted from LEO->GTO->GEO using solid fuel?
I might could understand a liquid fueld lower stage(s) precisely positioning the satellite so the solid-fueled burn could do its thing, but what about wholly solid fueled launchers?
 
A solid fueled engine can't be shut down right?

Wrong, though I don't know whether any of the solid fuelled upper stages can be shut down. I believe many ICBMs can shut down their solid fuel stages (e.g. by blowing out panels on the booster to vent them).

I have a vague memory that the solid fuel upper stage is designed to get the satellite close to the correct velocity and then they fine-tune it with RCS thrusters, but may be imagining that.
 
Wronger, Solid Rocket Booster's cannot be shutdown. Only Liquid
 
Solid rocket booster can be shut down by reducing their chamber pressure below the minimum for sustaining combustion. You effectively shock freeze it.

of course, the result is destructive - you can't restart the solid rocket motor.

For GSO missions, where you can use a solid apogee kick motor, the trick is simple: You choose the kick motor fitting for the satellite, as the dV needed is pretty constant for a selected launcher. You just need maybe to install either ballast or offload some fuel from the solid rocket motor.

The same with solid perigee kick motors, like the PAM on the Shuttle. The shuttle fine tunes the orbit for increasing precision, but finally, the kick is always a bit coarse.

Fine tuning finally happens with RCS. Because of that, solid apogee kick motors become more and more unfavorable, as cheaper bipropellant propulsion systems for satellite buses make their cost advantage lower. A bad solid rocket motor burn means a reduced lifetime of the satellite.
 
As far as I know it is not possible to shut down solid rocket boosters and also not possible to throttle them. They just burn once ignited until burnout and separation.

Also, i don't know any launch vehicle which uses solid rocket boosters to place its payload in orbit. Solid rocket boosters usually are only used for lift off / first stages because they provide more thrust at lift off compared to liquid propulsion, reduce the mass of the launch vehicle and are a little more "easy" to handle compared to liquid propulsion (but also risky in a few aspects). Usually it is upper stages of rockets which boost payloads into orbit. Solid boosters just act as a catapult during launch and initial ascent.

But I might be wrong. Please correct me if there is a different launch vehicle meanwhile I didn't hear from yet.
 
I know that several theoretical spacecraft designs such as the HL-20 and Hermes mini-shuttles were designed to support a solid rocket "escape" motor. This motor contained several boosters which could be fired one at a time in quantized amounts. But again, you can't just stop the motor once it is fired.
 
For the two stage solid rocket motor powered IUS, adjustments were primarily done via the mission design using the guidance constants programmed into the mission specific data load for the flight software. (The guidance portion of the mission data load.)

The mission design of the first and second solid rocket burns for GEO missions was adjusted by changing the amount of inclination change done with the first burn at perigee (typically around a degree and a half or so, IIRC, with almost all of the plane change done with the second burn.) This was done to match the delta-V required to the delta-V available. If you had a bit too much delta-V available, you did more plane change with SRM-1.

Both solid rockets were expected to provide delta-V to within about 0.5% three sigma I believe. The nominal sizes of the RCS-1 and RCS-2 trim burns programmed (one after each SRM burn) were chosen to maximize the minimum expected amount of RCS propellant margin ("worst case" amount left over) through Monte-Carlo analysis of the mission.

In extreme cases, the second stage would have been "off-loaded" (some propellant carved out) if the optimum turned out to be at much less than a full load and the difference was large enough to be important enough to do that. Usually the payloads were near the maximum payload so I don't recall this ever being done. In some cases (for example, the NASA planetary missions) a single RCS tank was used rather than the more usual 2 tanks for GEO missions. In an extreme case, the design included provision for a third RCS tank (I don't believe this was ever done either.) Edit: and the single RCS tank could be partially loaded too, to save a few kg for more optimization.
 
Wronger, Solid Rocket Booster's cannot be shutdown. Only Liquid

Wrong. As Urwumpe said, all you need to do is blow out ports on the booster that will allow the chamber pressure to drop fast enough, and the flame goes out. No flame == no thrust.

Google 'thrust termination' and you'll probably find a few documents on the subject; there's nothing relevant available as a PDF on NTRS. I found numerous references to Minuteman missiles having thrust termination ports on the third stage to shut down the solid rocket when it reached the correct delta-V, but no images and not much detail.
http://orbiter-forum.com/member.php?u=125
 
What I think mjessick is saying is you just de-optimize the transfer orbit changes to "waste" the excess delta-V provided by the solid motor.

My solution would have been to add ballast mass to the upper stage. That would work, wouldn't it?
 
My friend in high school built a miniature hybrid rocket engine that employed a solid fuel with a throttle on the oxidizer (which was gaseous if I recall). He installed it on a fiberglass lifting body model he built, but as far as I know he never did any powered flights with it. The ground tests he did with the engine were quite impressive looking though. Not sure if that really counts as a "solid fuel" you can shut off though.
 
There was a mention of a non-throttable solid engine, in a way yes this is true, the solid motor is a continued burn at a continued thrust.
However there can be ways of "manipulating" the thrust with either the shape of the hole cut, or with the uses of bernoulli type shapes to control the amount of thrust at certain points. I.E. space shuttle SRB's use star shaped patterns to make the thrust be more logrhythmic in nature.
 
Can't you also throttle a solid by injecting more or less of something that either inhibits or amplifies combustion?

But, regarding the original question, I think the observations above must be right -- the solid is used to get close to the final orbital velocity, and then fine-tuned with the payload's RCS.
 
What I think mjessick is saying is you just de-optimize the transfer orbit changes to "waste" the excess delta-V provided by the solid motor.

That is a good, very succinct, way to put it.

My solution would have been to add ballast mass to the upper stage. That would work, wouldn't it?

The problem with adding weight in practice is that affects both stages, and most importantly the first stage launcher somewhat also (shuttle or Titan for IUS missions.) In practice, the missions are designed in series if at all possible to isolate the upper stage design from the launch trajectory. The launcher keeps margin to get to the agreed deployment state, the upper stage then corrects any dispersions and uses its own margin to do the same so the payload gets exactly where it wants to no matter where in the 60 day launch window, or which orbit rev deployment happened, or whether the stack was deployed from the shuttle on the first or second day, or...) This is to get all the design and analysis work done in the 2 years or so available by all the different disciplines and geographically separated groups required. Starting earlier runs into diminishing returns (wasted money) since there is then more chance for mission delays or something major to change.

If you were to try and change some ballast in the upper stage the only way it would work would be to stay just at some obsolete maximum margin point. Any change at all away from that point design and you are eating into propellant margin and increasing the chance that you will run out of RCS fuel to trim any stage 2 dispersions. This would result in the payload being deployed some m/s short of the desired orbit. It is worse than might be expected, because part of the guidance design using results from the flight controls group is to decide on conservative cutoff limits to leave enough RCS propellant margin for 3 sigma attitude control dispersions to complete the rest of the planned RCS attitude maneuvers after the end of the second RCS burn.
Edit: Since you need an adaptive algorithm to respond to changes as they happen to adjust the remaining trajectory, there wouldn't be much point to adding ballast. It would just eat into propellant margins. I think ballast might have been added if the payload were ever to come in far out-of-range light on mass, but it usually turns out the other way! ;)

If the ballast isn't always right at the CG (which changes during burns anyway), this causes a change in the expected attitude control RCS usages (these are slow (back in the day) 6DOF runs: maybe 24 hours for 400 Monte-Carlo cases. Remember, these trajectories take 6-7 hours or so of simulated time) and this would then cause rework by the guidance designer if the RCS fuel expenditures during the various mission phases changed much.


For IUS MDL design, we did preliminary design, operational design, and final design phases.

Preliminary Design: 24 months before launch or so.
Show feasibility,
Determine basic guidance strategy: how will the Gamma Guidance algorithm be operated? Which set of the available constraints and control variables should be selected in each of the 8 or so guidance mission phases? Are there any software changes (non-data) required? (Almost never, although we added a large change that added tables of time dependent JPL designed targets used for all three planetary missions, and one very small mission specific guidance patch for Ulysses.)
Initial targets (Non-Linear Programming algorithm inital guesses) for expected payload mass and launcher trajectory (orbit and expected dispersions), and maybe a few other point cases.

This is mostly 3DOF work for guidance, IIRC. Because you didn't have the detailed vehicle and particular motor center of gravity changes available anyway to make it very useful to do 6DOF work.

(Mass properties changes during rocket burns
is one major real world annoyance that isn't simulated
much or not at all in Orbiter yet, I believe.
Gamma Guidance included a Kalman Filter and several
subsystems to adapt to conditions during the SRM burns.)

The guidance 3DOF and 6DOF simulations used a FORTRAN version of the real guidance algorithm. The attitude control simulation used fixed burn solutions no matter what the previous dispersions were (IIRC), but had more detailed payload modeling for flexible payloads.

Operational Design:
a much larger effort (perhaps up to a year, this is the big effort) that was intended to do detailed designs with whatever current information was available to cover the full expected range of values for every unsettled parameter. Uses generic parameters since what you are mainly concerned about is the box rather than the "nominal". IUS properties, launch trajectory, wide range of payload masses (particularly for payloads still under construction). For GEO missions, you might not know the final launch period precisely (e.g.: which months) so you might have to do the operational phase to cover the entire year of sun orientations, depending on how delicate the payload was.

Includes 6DOF work intended to cover the mission box to show feasibility and determine solutions for any possible forseen problems.

Final Design: 6 months before launch or so
Uses up-to-date data for the specific IUS vehicle, the assigned motors, all variable hardware items, the specific RCS tanks and load configuration, etc., and only tested for the agreed launch period. This phase may have to iterate if something critical changes (would be a big deal). This is a point design. Everything that might come up should have been considered during the large operational design phase and workarounds and methods decided ahead of time. There isn't much time at all to "turn the crank" and actually do the design. You are waiting for "final" certified input data to become available and then it is off to the races to get your part done and pass on your results to the next group waiting for it.

We used the best information available at that late date before launch when the software and data had to be finalized. Any changes after that point (launch dispersions, say an Abort to Orbit, or payload mass property changes) had to be handled by the onboard flight software in flight. Flexible, configurable, adaptive: Gamma Guidance! :thumbsup:
 
Just along the same line gregburch said, would it be possible to stop, say... a space shuttle booster if you flushed it from nose to nozzle with copious amounts of highly pressurised liquid nitrogen? Admittedly the engine may still run for a bit (after all, the oxidiser is in with the propellant)... but wouldn't that put out a runnaway solid rocket booster?

I can imagine the blowout panels could be a pain in orbit, if the timing is off, a panel may seperate two early or late, and the misdirected thrust would cause a spin.

Anyway, couldn't you inject variable amounts of LN2 into the nozzle of the rocket? Surely lowering the exhaust gas temp would create a significant thrust change.
 
The simplest way to cut thrust of a SRB is to just place a linear shaped charge on it's case and explode it. ;)
 
The simplest way to cut thrust of a SRB is to just place a linear shaped charge on it's case and explode it. ;)

According to the miniseries "When We Left the Earth," this was done (secretly, at the time), to the boosters on Challenger when the orbiter exploded.
 
I suspect that we don't thrust-terminate upper-stage solids because it's bad for the payload. Rather delicate, it is...and the bang associated with linear shaped charges can break things. And proving otherwise can be, you might imagine, expensive.

The approved solution is, indeed, to "waste" delta-V by plane-changing when low, rather than when high. It seemed awfully clever to me, when I learned the trick.
 
The approved solution is, indeed, to "waste" delta-V by plane-changing when low, rather than when high. It seemed awfully clever to me, when I learned the trick.

Yes, but it is not available for cheap spin stabilized launch configurations.
 
According to the miniseries "When We Left the Earth," this was done (secretly, at the time), to the boosters on Challenger when the orbiter exploded.

There was nothing particularly secret about it. It's been a well known fact since the start of manned spaceflight that the RSO has the authority to terminate manned vehicles if they deem it to be outside it's safety envelope. The SRB from Challenger was destroyed as it's predicted course took it near a coastal town.

(edit) Nvm, it's listed in a paper so isn't covered by itar.
 
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