Project N1 Lunar

[Luke Reichelt]

Buck, did you get that one post on the B5 vessels thread? I was asking what exactly you wanted done regarding the additional texture maps and lighting on the Nova-class dreadnought mesh?

https://www.orbiter-forum.com/threads/finishing-what-stevecast-started.40791/page-17#post-630289

 

[Buck Rogers]

Got lost in LEO. Wanted to make a quick showcase with Multistage, but naturally it's not that simple. I think I've maxed what I can do with MS, but many compromises and complications, hope to post a beta soon. And still slowly working on the LK 3d.

 

[Buck Rogers]

N1 L3 beta (Multistage2015, Orbiter2016, D3d9)

I'm wrapping up dev with Multistage for the N1, there are simply too many drawbacks, noteably save states won't work, no .scn flag for the LES and Ullage motors fire and won't shut down (and not Orb24 compatible etc...).
I've made an autopilot file with a TLI at MET 2:30+ (timewarp if needed!) with ullage motor sep in the middle, but this is very dificult to do with MS and needs further refining.
Multistage doesn't support hot-staging or multi-piece interstages. Stage 1-2 sep. is purely visual, stage 2-3 sep. no hot-staging (booster hacks only work on the 1st stage), was happy enough to get the 3-piece interstage working.
A rough ride: 3 to 5g for over 30s, G limiter breaks the autopilot hot staging.
And sadly no pyro effects for the LES or fairings etc...and problems with the launch azimuth...and...

But still looks pretty good and the autopilot will take you all the way close(?) to the moon.

I'm using data from Astronautix.com, accounting for boiloff (16t!) etc, trying to be as accurate as possible (very minimal overweight), but performance is not quite what I expected (triple checked the math), it's actually overpowered, BlockV hits MECO at 290km x 290km with still 1m burn time left (Dv 850m/s)! And the achilles heel is BlockG which doesn't even have enough Dv for TLI with BlockD + 15.5t! But it still seems to fit the (known) profile down to lunar descent. Maybe lack of confidence in the engines?

Very interested to hear comments and thoughts on this and enjoy the demo.
Hoping to inspire some coders for the project.

@Urwumpe if you are still interested in coding the N1F I can give that priority.

And feedback on how the metalic tex. (upper fuel tanks) looks would be great, I'm unsure where the shader flag is saved ?!? I've tried it on a clean install and it works!

 

[Urwumpe]

I'm using data from Astronautix.com, accounting for boiloff (16t!) etc, trying to be as accurate as possible (very minimal overweight), but performance is not quite what I expected (triple checked the math), it's actually overpowered, BlockV hits MECO at 290km x 290km with still 1m burn time left (Dv 850m/s)! And the achilles heel is BlockG which doesn't even have enough Dv for TLI with BlockD + 15.5t! But it still seems to fit the (known) profile down to lunar descent. Maybe lack of confidence in the engines?

Thats not surprising, thats something also known to the soviet engineers. Thus the N-1F. thats also why I wanted to do a N-1F rather than a classic N-1, for actually having a mission.

@Urwumpe if you are still interested in coding the N1F I can give that priority.

Not in the next weeks to months, but the existing code for the N-1F is already secured for restart later. Now I have two weeks leave with my son and after that, I hopefully can finish a little project of mine that waited for years to be completed.

 

[CurlSnout]

N1 L3 beta (Multistage2015, Orbiter2016, D3d9)

This represents a major accomplishment. Not sure how much further you will be able to take it, given some of the limitations associated with Multistage, but your model looks GREAT - and it flies! I'm having fun just launching it and watching. Looking forward to seeing how you make out with the LK. THANKS for taking this on, documenting your process/progress, and sharing the result.

 

[Buck Rogers]

Thanks, the motivation is very much appreciated, especially with such a large project.
Multistage is a great Orbiter extension (programmed a complete launch and flight for the Titan and Viking with it) and backbone for rockets in Orbiter in general, it's what kickstarted modding in Orbiter for me, can't imagine Orbiter without it and hopefully it will be a part of Orb24 (wishing @Matias Saibene best of luck!). Further ahead I think something like this should also be in the core code as a built-in rocket builder. Also it's a great testing tool and provides a lot of the ground work for conversion to a .dll etc..., so it's all worth while. The N1 still needs a base and tower etc... so still room for improvement.
Depending on MS dev., I'm also still thinking about a VesselM option, I could add a lot of the missing features, but it does depend on .dlls, very minimal, maybe 30 lines of code. I might be able to write it myself, would just need help compiling it, all the rest can be done with .cfg files. When I have time I'll take another look.

Making slow progress with the LK (less time and very complicated model), I'm maybe half way(?) through the 3d. I can do a lot with Vesselbuilder but VB doesn't recognise radar alt. making even a simple autopilot impossible (which is what killed the Viking Project). That and the cockpit, unsure how detailed to make it (without programming help it limits the project scope greatly), are the demotivaters, but will persevere to try to make a complete program (with base objects etc... there is still way enough to do).

And I take it that you see metalic textures? Interesting I was expecting it to save a GC file but there isn't one and it seems to work without, no idea how that works, but good to know that it does!
Thanks again for your feedback.

 

[Matias Saibene]

Thanks, the motivation is very much appreciated, especially with such a large project.
Multistage is a great Orbiter extension (programmed a complete launch and flight for the Titan and Viking with it) and backbone for rockets in Orbiter in general, it's what kickstarted modding in Orbiter for me, can't imagine Orbiter without it and hopefully it will be a part of Orb24 (wishing @Matias Saibene best of luck!). Further ahead I think something like this should also be in the core code as a built-in rocket builder. Also it's a great testing tool and provides a lot of the ground work for conversion to a .dll etc..., so it's all worth while. The N1 still needs a base and tower etc... so still room for improvement.
Depending on MS dev., I'm also still thinking about a VesselM option, I could add a lot of the missing features, but it does depend on .dlls, very minimal, maybe 30 lines of code. I might be able to write it myself, would just need help compiling it, all the rest can be done with .cfg files. When I have time I'll take another look.

Making slow progress with the LK (less time and very complicated model), I'm maybe half way(?) through the 3d. I can do a lot with Vesselbuilder but VB doesn't recognise radar alt. making even a simple autopilot impossible (which is what killed the Viking Project). That and the cockpit, unsure how detailed to make it (without programming help it limits the project scope greatly), are the demotivaters, but will persevere to try to make a complete program (with base objects etc... there is still way enough to do).

And I take it that you see metalic textures? Interesting I was expecting it to save a GC file but there isn't one and it seems to work without, no idea how that works, but good to know that it does!
Thanks again for your feedback.

Great project! I love extreme rockets.
I'm actually back to working on Multistage2015, and I'm working on some bugs.
If you need help compiling, you can use CMake. It's a lifesaver for me, saving me from all the Visual Studio red tape.

You can find a full tutorial here:
https://www.orbiter-forum.com/threa...-compile-orbiter-add-ons-my-experience.41842/

By the way, if you'd like, you can join the "Multistage2015 debugging team" in the following thread:
https://www.orbiter-forum.com/threads/multistage2015-update-to-openorbiter2024.42110/

Everyone is welcome!

 

[Buck Rogers]

I'm actually back to working on Multistage2015, and I'm working on some bugs.

This really good news Hope the bug hunt isn't too nasty.
CMake install is still a little daunting, if only I had the time to program, set up compilers and do 3d, maybe one day
And will defineately help where I can with MS debugging

 

[CurlSnout]

Are these the metallic bits - associated with Block-D - that you are wondering about? If so, they manifest like this (below) on my system.





Different than in the images you posted on June 1 over in the screenshots thread (highlighting the FRODS- Ferrero Roche Orbital Delivery Service).

?

 

[Buck Rogers]

Different than in the images you posted on June 1 over in the screenshots thread (highlighting the FRODS- Ferrero Roche Orbital Delivery Service).

In the first pic I can see reflections and shinyness on the tanks so I think it works, second pic it's hard to tell. The FRODS pic was taken in LEO daylight with lots to reflect so will look a little different.
Thanks for the screenshots, still trying to figure how Orbiter works and this ones a bit of a mystery

Note: reccommend full scene reflection mode and heavy update rate in the video advanced tab.

 

[CurlSnout]

Final resting place for Block-B:



I'm not sure where this is, exactly, but it was fun following it down.

 

[misha.physics]

heavy update rate in the video advanced tab

Thanks! Finally I understood what this option mean. All this time I kept it as "Light". I switched it to "Heavy" and noticed the difference for reflections.

 

[Buck Rogers]

Lander stage nearly done. And started UV unwrapping...
Still some detective work on some details. One question, the cabin ladder, I would think it's detachable, but I've found no exact information on this and from museum pics, mockups, diagrams it's vey hard to tell, it's either completly absent or seems to be fixed. I'm tempted to mount it on the lander and let it swing back (soyuz launchpad style) on ascent stage launch, there's also an umbelical that detaches.
Would like to be accurate, if anyone has any ideas?

 

[Luke Reichelt]

Buck, I would like to draw your attention to my latest post in the B5 vessels thread:

https://www.orbiter-forum.com/threads/finishing-what-stevecast-started.40791/page-21#post-631308

 

[GLS]

Hmm, what is the need for this cross-posting "polluting" this thread?
If you want to call someone to a thread, you should mention the user in a post by writing "@" followed by the name of the user (like @Luke Reichelt) which will cause a notification to be given to that user, or just send a Direct Message (envelope icon in top right of the window) and state your business directly to the user.

 

[Luke Reichelt]

Hmm, what is the need for this cross-posting "polluting" this thread?
If you want to call someone to a thread, you should mention the user in a post by writing "@" followed by the name of the user (like @Luke Reichelt) which will cause a notification to be given to that user, or just send a Direct Message (envelope icon in top right of the window) and state your business directly to the user.

It's because Buck Rogers can sometimes be a bit slow to respond to certain posts.

 

[Buck Rogers]

It's because Buck Rogers can sometimes be a bit slow to respond to certain posts.

If you @ my name I'll be notified and will answer when and if neccessary, but no guarentee

Back on topic: Yes some progress but very slow, also wrapping up another project.

 

[Luke Reichelt]

Back on topic: Yes some progress but very slow, also wrapping up another project.

Good to know. By the way, which project are you in the process of wrapping up? Project Viking?

 

[Buck Rogers]

Follow the threads, I'll post updates.

 

[Buck Rogers]

LK Ascent stage, first Orbiter import. Simple material and metal shader. Still a lot of UV mapping to do and have started on the textures. Slowly, slowly...