IronRain
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ok, no problem
General Question SSF (Space Shuttle Fleet) playable in 2010?
- Thread starter IronRain
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why not? too much work?what are we supposed to do now?
Well you could of course use space shuttle ultra as already mentioned here, or you could also use the default shuttle! :thumbup:
My ramblings about the fleet - take it or not...
Although I don't really think that I owe anyone an explaination as to why there won't be a 2010 Shuttle Fleet version, I'm providing this as a means to avoid countless questions in the future as to why there isn't a 2010 version. I do NOT intend to continue to answer this question beyond what I write here today.
Let me first say that the 2010 version of Orbiter is wonderful, and I have enjoyed watching it develop over the past few years. My association with Orbiter began in 2001 when a friend at the Johnson Space Center in Houston sent me an Email with a link to the program. Back then I had been flying flyarounds of a space station using Microsoft Space Simulator (remember that?) and was happy to be flying that. Then I was introduced to Orbiter. I still have a working copy of that first version of Orbiter. I immediately set about re-doing the included ISS mesh to have a simplistic ISS 7A that I could fly to using the red Delta Glider. Then the next version of Orbiter came out and included the first Space Shuttle model. I already had more capability than MSS had ever provided me, and I was happy.
Shortly there after, I began my long association with Don Gallagher ("Donamy") and through his prodding I began to learn C++. My programming abilities were (and still are) questionable at best, having been a FORTRAN and Visual Basic programmer for almost 30 years. Slowly I began to work on the Shuttle Fleet, the GPCMFD, and later the ISS Fleet and RPOP MFD. Along the way, Mike Norman created the AutoFCS and landings became much easier and realistic. I have always installed features as I needed them to perform simulations of shuttle missions.
Over these past nine years I have shared my passion for Orbiter with actual astronauts and others at JSC. I created the Expansion pack series in order to provide real-world, real-time simulations during missions. But I have always done this in order to please myself first, then shared the results with the community for their amusement.
A few weeks ago, one of the members of this forum asked a question along the lines of, "...does anyone actually PLAY Orbiter?" or words to that effect. It got me thinking. I have developed the Shuttle and ISS fleets to the point where I have been working of late on specific mission simulations (Hubble missions, early ISS missions) along with recent mission-specific expansion pack simulations. Occasionally I have had to tweak a model or mesh (most recently STS-88 simulations have caused me to re-do some ISS fleet vehicles) in order to provide a more realistic simulation for my own amusement. Occasionally I would try updating the fleet to the latest beta version of Orbiter, but I realized that it was going to take an enormous amount of my (limited) time to update the fleet for the new Orbiter and I didn't really need to for my own use. With the available scenaries and atmospheric enhancements already developed over the years for use with the 2006 version, a reasonably stable set of models (that I understand and can adapt easily) I had no reason to update the fleets to the 2010 version. I'm in my mid-fifties now, with a wife, two teenage children, and a full-time job. To have to back-track and re-develop the fleets would only cut into the time I have for Orbiter and I have no desire to do that. Space Shuttle Ultra began as the next generation of the shuttle simulation, and I wish them all the best. I have not really used SSU because I already have the Shuttle fleet and it suits me fine for what I wish to do.
So, does all this mean that I will never update the fleet to 2010 (or beyond)? Not at all. If I ever see a need to do so and it suits my purposes, then I will make the time and update the fleet accordingly. On the other hand, I will continue to provide expansion packs for the current fleet based against the 2006 Orbiter version. (Recently, while watching the development of the 2010 version and knowing of it's pending release, I nonetheless created the RPOP MFD because I needed it for some rendezvous and docking practices I was working while re-creating STS-97. I knew that it would be outdated within a matter of weeks, but I created it for my needs using the compiler and Orbiter SDK that I was most familiar and comfortable with.)
I thank each of you that understand my position regarding the fleet. I have always had at least 3 or more Orbiter installations at any one time, now I have another; the 2010 version. Visually it is fantastic, and I enjoy using it. But I will continue to use the 2006 version with the Fleets for the foreseeable future.
To Voyager, and anyone else with similar ideas I say only this: you cannot annoy me if I don't let you. But, if you wish to try, it will only provide me with an excuse to avoid this forum.
Creating and releasing expansion packs will continue. I am eternally greatful to all of you. The last time I looked at Orbit Hangar, Shuttle Fleet was the most downloaded add-on of all time. That was your doing, not mine. And that is all the thanks I have ever worked for.
Best wishes to all of you,
Dave
Although I don't really think that I owe anyone an explaination as to why there won't be a 2010 Shuttle Fleet version, I'm providing this as a means to avoid countless questions in the future as to why there isn't a 2010 version. I do NOT intend to continue to answer this question beyond what I write here today.
Let me first say that the 2010 version of Orbiter is wonderful, and I have enjoyed watching it develop over the past few years. My association with Orbiter began in 2001 when a friend at the Johnson Space Center in Houston sent me an Email with a link to the program. Back then I had been flying flyarounds of a space station using Microsoft Space Simulator (remember that?) and was happy to be flying that. Then I was introduced to Orbiter. I still have a working copy of that first version of Orbiter. I immediately set about re-doing the included ISS mesh to have a simplistic ISS 7A that I could fly to using the red Delta Glider. Then the next version of Orbiter came out and included the first Space Shuttle model. I already had more capability than MSS had ever provided me, and I was happy.
Shortly there after, I began my long association with Don Gallagher ("Donamy") and through his prodding I began to learn C++. My programming abilities were (and still are) questionable at best, having been a FORTRAN and Visual Basic programmer for almost 30 years. Slowly I began to work on the Shuttle Fleet, the GPCMFD, and later the ISS Fleet and RPOP MFD. Along the way, Mike Norman created the AutoFCS and landings became much easier and realistic. I have always installed features as I needed them to perform simulations of shuttle missions.
Over these past nine years I have shared my passion for Orbiter with actual astronauts and others at JSC. I created the Expansion pack series in order to provide real-world, real-time simulations during missions. But I have always done this in order to please myself first, then shared the results with the community for their amusement.
A few weeks ago, one of the members of this forum asked a question along the lines of, "...does anyone actually PLAY Orbiter?" or words to that effect. It got me thinking. I have developed the Shuttle and ISS fleets to the point where I have been working of late on specific mission simulations (Hubble missions, early ISS missions) along with recent mission-specific expansion pack simulations. Occasionally I have had to tweak a model or mesh (most recently STS-88 simulations have caused me to re-do some ISS fleet vehicles) in order to provide a more realistic simulation for my own amusement. Occasionally I would try updating the fleet to the latest beta version of Orbiter, but I realized that it was going to take an enormous amount of my (limited) time to update the fleet for the new Orbiter and I didn't really need to for my own use. With the available scenaries and atmospheric enhancements already developed over the years for use with the 2006 version, a reasonably stable set of models (that I understand and can adapt easily) I had no reason to update the fleets to the 2010 version. I'm in my mid-fifties now, with a wife, two teenage children, and a full-time job. To have to back-track and re-develop the fleets would only cut into the time I have for Orbiter and I have no desire to do that. Space Shuttle Ultra began as the next generation of the shuttle simulation, and I wish them all the best. I have not really used SSU because I already have the Shuttle fleet and it suits me fine for what I wish to do.
So, does all this mean that I will never update the fleet to 2010 (or beyond)? Not at all. If I ever see a need to do so and it suits my purposes, then I will make the time and update the fleet accordingly. On the other hand, I will continue to provide expansion packs for the current fleet based against the 2006 Orbiter version. (Recently, while watching the development of the 2010 version and knowing of it's pending release, I nonetheless created the RPOP MFD because I needed it for some rendezvous and docking practices I was working while re-creating STS-97. I knew that it would be outdated within a matter of weeks, but I created it for my needs using the compiler and Orbiter SDK that I was most familiar and comfortable with.)
I thank each of you that understand my position regarding the fleet. I have always had at least 3 or more Orbiter installations at any one time, now I have another; the 2010 version. Visually it is fantastic, and I enjoy using it. But I will continue to use the 2006 version with the Fleets for the foreseeable future.
To Voyager, and anyone else with similar ideas I say only this: you cannot annoy me if I don't let you. But, if you wish to try, it will only provide me with an excuse to avoid this forum.
Creating and releasing expansion packs will continue. I am eternally greatful to all of you. The last time I looked at Orbit Hangar, Shuttle Fleet was the most downloaded add-on of all time. That was your doing, not mine. And that is all the thanks I have ever worked for.
Best wishes to all of you,
Dave
What has distracted from it's beauty? (Your words, not mine). And no, the source is not available. I guess no matter what I write, some folks just aren't going to get it. *sigh*
Tycho
Active member
David, I understand and respect your positions regarding updating Shuttle Fleet, and that is fine with me. Thank you for sharing SF with all of us, even though you created it for your own purposes, and we really do appreciate your contributions. Best wishes and good luck with everything that you do.
IronRain
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David,
Thanks for your hard work on the SSF. I think that I can speak for all of us on the forum that it's one of the most legendary add-on ever. I always download the expansion pack and I re-do the missions with a great joy, and that's because of you.
as you mentioned, you have a wife and kids... they're (of course) more important then a sim game. how beautiful Orbiter is though, we may not forget that there's also a real-life world.
David, take care and thanks for everything!
P.S. if you have some free time..... no just kidding :thumbup:
Thanks for your hard work on the SSF. I think that I can speak for all of us on the forum that it's one of the most legendary add-on ever. I always download the expansion pack and I re-do the missions with a great joy, and that's because of you.
as you mentioned, you have a wife and kids... they're (of course) more important then a sim game. how beautiful Orbiter is though, we may not forget that there's also a real-life world.
David, take care and thanks for everything!
P.S. if you have some free time..... no just kidding :thumbup:
Mojave
60% Ethanol
I understand you. SSF was the first add on I ever downloaded. I remember thinking, "Who is the genius behind this add on" , no kidding. I thank you for making it, and I assur you that if somehow you do make a new release, I'll be one of the first to download it.
Voyeger, just likes SSF; who can blame him for persistantly asking to modify the dll.(s)
and thanks for SSF.:hail:
IronRain
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4throck
Enthusiast !
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Voyager, This is free software and free addons done in free time. When was the last time someone GAVE you something?
If you want something that suits your specific needs there are only 3 options: do it yourself, pay for it (there is a commercial shuttle simulator), or hope that someone eventually does it and give it to you (unlikely).
As with all things, after a certain point of detail/scale of development you reach the limit of what you can do in the scope of an amateur project. Look at MS Flight Sim and the excellence of some of it's addons. It can only be done with payed work. As simple as that.
If you want something that suits your specific needs there are only 3 options: do it yourself, pay for it (there is a commercial shuttle simulator), or hope that someone eventually does it and give it to you (unlikely).
As with all things, after a certain point of detail/scale of development you reach the limit of what you can do in the scope of an amateur project. Look at MS Flight Sim and the excellence of some of it's addons. It can only be done with payed work. As simple as that.
Linguofreak
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Urwumpe
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Hey, my 80 GB Orbiter partition is already full... OK, most GB are actually C++-compiler and library folder. But Orbiter can grow huge...just have enough temporary files in your development folders.
ar81
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How about making you own shuttle fleet addon?
That wouldn't require a hack and that would make you popular here.
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Of course, but I think he meant what to do when you wanna play Orbiter 2010 with it.
hutchison66
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shuttle fleet
On orbit works so far but no launch problem I have is all my scenarios are with shuttle fleet so may go back to 2006 if he's not going to fix it why not release the source as its non profit and we would be eternally grateful PS was looking forward to collision detection
On orbit works so far but no launch problem I have is all my scenarios are with shuttle fleet so may go back to 2006 if he's not going to fix it why not release the source as its non profit and we would be eternally grateful PS was looking forward to collision detection
Urwumpe
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Ok, lets say David413 released the source code. What then? Will you be able to work with it? I don't see any of the "please release the source code" cult helping us in SSU. Why not?
Because if you could work with C++ code, you would be writing your own SSF already.
Because if you could work with C++ code, you would be writing your own SSF already.
No, on orbit isn't working 100%. Orbiter 2010 now intercepts "CTRL+X" and "CTRL+Z" for working the field-of-view zoom, so those two keystrokes that were previously used by the shuttle fleet would have to be re-done. I have no idea whether the AutoFCS will work with the new Orbiter since the atmospheric model has changed, and I don't have the source code for that addon. Two examples of things that would need changing (amongst all the others that I haven't even bothered to check on).
And what does it mean that I should release the source as its "non profit"? Even if I don't get financial compensation for the time spent, I have literally put hundreds of my own hours into the development of the fleet. I "own" the fleet in a sense, why would I just give it away? If you really want the source, I'll give you version 1.0's source. In fact, you already have it. It's the source code for the default Atlantis that comes with Orbiter. There you go. Start working on the new shuttle fleet from there.
Retaining 2006 is the only current option I support for Fleet expansion packs and future releases. It's what I run and will be using for the foreseeable future.
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IronRain
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as far as I've tested it, it doesn't seems to work.
Why wants everybody the source code? you can try to remake the shuttle but it will never as good as David made it. He put a lot of time in the version(s) that is/are already on O-H. Accept his choice, and shut the
up
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