Russian Speakers: take public action now, before it's too late

[SiberianTiger]

If you are a Russian speaker, I advice you to read the post in my blog related to the problem:
http://tigerofsiberia.livejournal.com/6677.html

I would be thankful if this information were spread on different Internet resources. Anyone's voice is important, especially if you are an RF citizen.


-----Posted Added-----


Update: you can subscribe to the community letter to President Dmitry Medvedev here: http://tigerofsiberia.livejournal.com/6956.html#cutid1

 

[Belisarius]

Could you explain for non-Russians what it's about. I see photos of them smashing up a Tu-154 and a Soyuz behind it. Is it Baikonur? Are they going to destroy the Soyuz too?

 

[Ghostrider]

As far as I could understand, it's an exhibit pavillion in Moscow which is being torn up to make way for a "better, larger" (more expensive) pavillion. However, the "better and larger" version doesn't have any rockets on it which is a darn shame.

 

[Belisarius]

Impressive linguistic skills. So what are they going to do with the Vostok? (now I see it isn't a Soyuz)

 

[Ghostrider]

Impressive linguistic skills.

I hope it's ironic. I merely made hot, passionate use of the Firefox Hyperwords add-on...

 

[Jarvitä]

As far as I could understand, it's an exhibit pavillion in Moscow which is being torn up to make way for a "better, larger" (more expensive) pavillion. However, the "better and larger" version doesn't have any rockets on it which is a darn shame.

This is pretty much it. They're removing the Восток and other aerospace exhibits.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Could you explain for non-Russians what it's about. I see photos of them smashing up a Tu-154 and a Soyuz behind it. Is it Baikonur? Are they going to destroy the Soyuz too?

Gladly. There's an exhibition centre in Moscow, which held the 8K72 version of R-7 rocket ("Vostok") on display for three decades up to now - that is the same rocket as the one Gagarin flew. You might get the idea that everything got privatized in the last part of this period. After years of poor maintenance and relative lack of public interest (compared to 70's) the property owner decided it's the time to turn the square where the exibits located into a brand new exibition centre (which most probably will eventually be used as an office and trading centre, given the small revenue ratio exibition estate produces per a strip of the costly Moscow land). This will involve razing down everything - and not only the vintage airplanes, but the rocket as well. One plane has already been destroyed (during a clear day, with large public audience). They've already pillages the "Cosmos" exhibition pavillion - the best fate of the exibits that had been located there was ending up in foreign technical museums.

If this pass to happen, that would be a greatest national shame for Russia and a hit on the memory of the entire Earth civilization. This has to be averted. Our first step is to appeal to the highest authorities on behalf of the nation.

 

[GregBurch]

Ownership and care of things like this tend to get transferred to the Smithsonian in the US. I learned about this when I got involved in raising money to restore the Saturn V at JSC and build a protective enclosure for it. It's an interesting "public-private partnership" unlike just about any other institution in the US (the details of which are not widely known here).

Is there some analogous institution in the RF?

For what it's worth, I know EXACTLY how you feel. It was the threat of deterioration of "our" Saturn V here in Houston that spurred me to get personally involved.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Ownership and care of things like this tend to get transferred to the Smithsonian in the US. I learned about this when I got involved in raising money to restore the Saturn V at JSC and build a protective enclosure for it. It's an interesting "public-private partnership" unlike just about any other institution in the US (the details of which are not widely known here).

Is there some analogous institution in the RF?

The situation here is odd. First of all, we have several public aircraft and space museums - yet none of them is comparable to Smithsonian or Sihnsheim in Germany. One of such museums used to the the exhibition center's pavillion in question. But I find it quite paradoxial that big deal of them aren't publicly available, because they are located inside territories of the factiries associated with the space industry and hence in restricted access zones. But, on other hand, you can pass by the barbed wire and see the exhibits after gathering a group, granting all the necessary permissions and paying a not so little sum of money - and of course, visiting is restricted to working hours only. Foreign citizens can do the same - for even bigger sum of money. Such instututions are really rich of intersting exhibits, like Enegria museum, Lavochkin museum, Star City, not to mention Baikonur and other places. But all this heap of problems is enough for a mean person who would want to look at some space hardware to spit at it and give up trying.

Also, it makes very little sense why they continue to keep secrecy about these exhibitions: they all have been ptotograped through their length and breadths and these pics are on the Internet and in popular magazines. So we are mostly looking at pictures here.

The installations that are really publicly available usually don't offer you much to see or contain exhibits in a poor shape due to long years of cut funding of cultural establishements. The unique collections of airplanes in Monino and Zhukovsky (Moscow's suburbs) are deteriorating due to keeping without shelter - and yes, they are barely accessible as well.

The only good prospect is the due opening of the space museum in Moscow, in the stylobate of the "To Conquerors of Space" monument. A friend of mine works there. But it's not an installation large enough to hold a rocket.

Add here that most of such points of interest, with rare exception, are concentrated in Moscow or near Moscow. So much for the inhabitabts of other regions of Russia: I haven't seen a thing until I moved to Moscow when I was 30.

All this is in sharp contrast with the words of our high officials who say they support high tech, innovation and industrial development of Russia and that we must be proud of our own greatness and status of a space power. We are offered to take their word rather then to look at the evidence.

 

[GregBurch]

Perhaps the best thing to do would be to go to the people who are really running the aerospace industries and organize THEM to approach whoever is the real political power (I assume Putin) and propose the formation of a national air & space museum, as a matter of national pride.

The Smithsonian has a full time employee whose job it is to schmooze the leaders of the aerospace industry in the US. She keeps these folks in line and contributing lots of money, and uses their organized power to lobby Congress and pay for the museum to host fund raising events. Without that centralized effort, we wouldn't have had a chance in hell of raising the total amount necessary to do the refurbishment and preservation of the Apollo-era artifacts.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Perhaps the best thing to do would be to go to the people who are really running the aerospace industries and organize THEM to approach whoever is the real political power (I assume Putin) and propose the formation of a national air & space museum, as a matter of national pride.

Our best hope is the involvement of the councels of veterans of the space industry, and I believe is the best thing for mundane people like me to keep everyone alert about what's happening.

However, I put little belief in the high executive's intentions: the head of Roscosmos, Anatoly Perminov, already waived off the issue saying that "we put a new Angara or Soyuz-ST" rocket instead. This alone reveals the lack of caring or even a primitive thinking in this man. The very idea of this rocket being a historical artifact seems to be over his comprehension. A bone head General, who would be in the best place running around, carrying out Korolev's orders...

Raising funds is another tough question, but I hope for at least the sum enough to keep one little rocket in one piece and a good shape on display. We aren't pretending for a real big museum yet. A small step, but a first step anyway.

 

[GregBurch]

Our best hope is the involvement of the councels of veterans of the space industry, and I believe is the best thing for mundane people like me to keep everyone alert about what's happening.

However, I put little belief in the high executive's intentions: the head of Roscosmos, Anatoly Perminov, already waived off the issue saying that "we put a new Angara or Soyuz-ST" rocket instead. This alone reveals the lack of caring or even a primitive thinking in this man. The very idea of this rocket being a historical artifact seems to be over his comprehension. A bone head General, who would be in the best place running around, carrying out Korolev's orders...

Raising funds is another tough question, but I hope for at least the sum enough to keep one little rocket in one piece and a good shape on display. We aren't pretending for a real big museum yet. A small step, but a first step anyway.

Well, a comment based on my experience with the JSC Saturn V project: Raising money for such things is much, much more difficult than I had imagined. Without strong allies who already have positions of power and wealth, it's basically not possible to raise more than small sums.

FWIW, we had the "NASA alumni" (basically the private retired engineers and managers group) solidly on our side, and a number of Shuttle astronauts in our group. That, and two bucks, bought us a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

 

[SiberianTiger]

FWIW, we had the "NASA alumni" (basically the private retired engineers and managers group) solidly on our side, and a number of Shuttle astronauts in our group. That, and two bucks, bought us a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Thank you for making good points. We might want to change strategy if our going, by the Russian custom, cap in hand to a Tsar proves useless.

 

[Belisarius]

Good luck in your efforts, Tiger.

If the Vostok is sold to the West like the Buran in Gorki Park it would be a great loss for Russian heritage, but at least it would still exist.

But to destroy a Vostok spacecraft! That would be an act of pure cultural vandalism. Destroy the beginning of manned space exploration! Everyone got angry with the Talibans when they blew up the Buddhas. This would be a similar act of desecration and ignorance in my opinion. Not that it would get a hundredth of the media attention and outrage.